K11 Owners Group

1Snowbum · Posted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 2:40 pm Post subject: Synchronizing the U-joints

I have the rear drive off my 93 K11LT, to inspect the Paralever bearings, and rear splines, and do other minor maintenance. I feel that the U-joints should be synchronized upon re-assembly, even though the factory manual I have seems to not mention it. Even lifting the driveshaft housing up and down and with a 100 watt lamp, I can't, with these old eyes of mine, see the forward U-joint, to see about synchronization. I want to know when one arm of the yolk is vertical, then I will put a mark of some sort on the aft end, making it much easier to synch the U-joints.
Surely there must be some trick or easier way to 'see' that forward joint, or, otherwise synch the joints.
Aside note: Anyone gotten away with using Loctite blue on the Paralever pins and nut?.,.....BMW specifies 2701, which is a fast setting version of 270, both of which are slightly stronger, in effect, than 271, but actually nearly the same as the slower setting common in USA RED type 271. I talked to Loctite about these products a couple days ago. They are going to discontinue 2701, and maybe 270, which were Euro products anyway. BMW probably specified a fast setting Loctite due to production line times, wanting to put on the right side nut after a short period of time, as rotating that nut might rotate the pin. But, these Loctites are VERY strong, and often require a LOT of pin-point flame heat on the pins, to release them. I am a bit skeptical about using a much weaker, blue, Loctite...as the rotating force could get pretty high in actual use.
Thanks in advance,
Robert
_________________
Bob Fleischer, AKA Snowbum
dba Fleischer's Service,
http://bmwmotorcycletech.info

Flying Duck · Posted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 3:25 pm Post subject:

Bum:

I think you might have to pull the swing arm. Like you plan to do, I have mine marked at the junction on both halves of the drive shaft to make life easier in the future.

I use blue Loc-tite on the left pivot of the final. No issues and I don't think there will be. That thing is torqued in there and I can't see that there would be enough rotational force on it through lubed bearings to move it so I suspect it would stay in even without any Loc-tite.
_________________
93 LT (x2)
94 RS
86-97 K75F(K75/100/1100 Frankenbrick)
86 K75C w/paralever, hi perf cams,TURBO!
91 & 92 K75Ss
91 K1
86 custom K100
14 WR250R
IBA #17739 (SS1K, BBG, 50CC)
Buy parts HERE

tmarshall57 · Posted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 4:06 pm Post subject:

I don't wish to hi-jack this thread but do you have any tips on releasing the final drive RH pivot? I have broken two hex keys in the process of doing this and I can't shift it. I may not be using enough heat because I am frightened of damaging the paint on the swing arm?

On the subject of Loctite I just ordered a 50ml container of 2701 for £3.50 (approx $7.00) and received 3ml of 271

I thought 50ml for that price was too good to be true. I think this also confirms that 2701 has been discontinued
_________________
K1100RS Special Edition 1997
Arctic Silver/Black

Flying Duck · Posted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 4:19 pm Post subject:

Try some Liquid Wrench or similar product squirted into the threads in addtion to heat.
_________________
93 LT (x2)
94 RS
86-97 K75F(K75/100/1100 Frankenbrick)
86 K75C w/paralever, hi perf cams,TURBO!
91 & 92 K75Ss
91 K1
86 custom K100
14 WR250R
IBA #17739 (SS1K, BBG, 50CC)
Buy parts HERE

rkildu · Posted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 4:43 pm Post subject:

Mr. Bum,

I was able see the front of my shaft using a Mini Mag Light (AA size) dialed to spotlight mode, and shined up one side of the shaft. Then I just lifted the shaft from the back end up and down slowly rotating the shaft until I identified the fixed end of the u-joint yoke on the end of the shaft. I could just see it moving. Then I marked the back end with a Sharpy pen and marked the rear u-joint at the appropriate point. I think I turned down the lights in the shop.

Worked for me.

Rod

1Snowbum · Posted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 5:19 pm Post subject:

BMW specifies a very strong Loctite for those pins and locknut. In my factory manual they even specify using the Loctite full length on the threads. Unless you are very lucky, using a high quality steel Allen Wrench, and an extension (I use 3/8" drive short stubby Allen's), you will almost certainly have to use the flame from such as a Propane torch, aimed right at the center of the pin for awhile. The temperature at which the strongest Loctite's start to release is quite high; finger spit sizzle is not high enough. I think BMW went overboard on this Loctite specification, but I really COULD be quite wrong. If a pin backed out, whilst you were high-tailing it down the road on the bike, things would get very noticeably nasty, quickly. On the other hand, even with a pretty-well seized Paralever Bearing, I can't see the needed forces to unscrew a pin...but, again, I surely could be wrong, and maybe forces COULD be that high. Surely, the wheel assembly, acting through a number of inches of arm, gives quite a bit of potential force if the bearing seized. I am probably going to use a small amount of 271 in re-assembling mine, once I figure a way to 'see' that U-joint clearly enough. Anything to avoid removing the swing arm on this sidecar rig! I'll clean the paralever pin threads and hole threads thoroughly, first.
Being disgusted with my lack of eye-ability today, I set aside the rear drive work in favor of installing the front lower added fender part for the rear fender, that keeps road crap out of the clutch lever area. Installing the car tire on the EML rim was fun too, with tire spoons....but, worked out well, balanced on my Telefix stand well too.
Anyone else that has ideas on the U-joint synch is invited by me to post on this thread....any help appreciated!
_________________
Bob Fleischer, AKA Snowbum
dba Fleischer's Service,
http://bmwmotorcycletech.info

bmwmick · Posted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 6:04 pm Post subject:

Hi Bob,
I have always been able to see my front u-joint using a small (AAA) size
Maglight while lifting the driveshaft just a little in the swingarm. You need a very small light source to reduce the glare enough to actually see it. I think you 'might' also be able to put two fingers on the rubber boot at the front of the swingarm and crush it enough to feel how the u-joint is aligned. Both of my Paralever driveshafts have permanent marks for alignment (yes I filed a notch on them the last time I had them out). Smile

IF you still have an early driveshaft, it WILL come out of the swingarm without removing the swingarm. The newer shafts are slightly larger and most will not fit from the rear unless you remove the edges where it passes through the front of the swingarm. To remove the front section, stuff a rag in the rear of the driveshaft and clamp a pair of Vicegrips on it. A good solid pull will release the front section.
Re-aligning that front yoke can be a real chore if the joint is 'floppy'. With a fairly stiff u-joint, you can put the tranny in 1st gear and get the splines aligned pretty easily. Then it just takes one whack with a rubber mallet to seat it on the output shaft.
As for the Loctite, I've never used the factory green stuff when I re-assembled. The Loctite blue works very well.

Mick
_________________
Mick McKinnon
KOG#175
'93 K1100LT, '96 R1100RT, '84 R100RS, 2010 Kawasaki C-14
Tucson, AZ

1Snowbum · Posted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 6:57 pm Post subject:

Thanks, Mick. It really never occurred to me that I could pull the driveshaft with its forward U-joint, all out to the rear without disconnecting something at the front. I can't really even hardly see the front boot, with all that is on this rig. I will take a hard look tomorrow, and maybe I can pull the shaft. The U-joints are surely NOT stiff on this bike.
If a great big yank on the rear end of the driveshaft pops the shaft loose, and is removable, that would certainly be a help in synchronizing/marking the U-joints.
On the other hand....what about putting the removed driveshaft/U-joint BACK into the housing....am I opening a can of worms, since I cannot easily at all gain access to the front boot....and.....
?
_________________
Bob Fleischer, AKA Snowbum
dba Fleischer's Service,
http://bmwmotorcycletech.info

bmwmick · Posted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 8:23 pm Post subject:

Bob,
Yes, the front will come off the output shaft with a good sharp jolt. There is a round 'keeper' spring (sort of like a hog ring) inside the front splined yoke just like the one at the rear. They snap on and off. No danger of losing the ring, as it's captive.
If the u-joints are 'floppy', you can wrap the yoke at the crosspiece pivots with some freezer tape (filament tape works best) to 'set' the angle of the yoke. Leave a long tail on the tape so you can simply unwrap it once you have seated the front yoke. I've only had to use that trick once but it works well. (Now you and I both know the 'secret') Smile

I can see where you are a little handicapped by having the sidecar attached. Probably a real bear getting a good sight line on that driveshaft.

Mick
_________________
Mick McKinnon
KOG#175
'93 K1100LT, '96 R1100RT, '84 R100RS, 2010 Kawasaki C-14
Tucson, AZ

1Snowbum · Posted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 9:21 pm Post subject:

Thanks for the advice, Mick. I was going to try to research the factory book on driveshaft removal, but ran out of time....Wifey has informed me that I shall wear a Tux and take her to the Fireman's Ball TONIGHT!....
Bob
_________________
Bob Fleischer, AKA Snowbum
dba Fleischer's Service,
http://bmwmotorcycletech.info

bmwmick · Posted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 10:56 pm Post subject:

You'll have more fun at the ball. Rolling Eyes

You can start reading on page 33.18 or so tomorrow.

Tell Penny Hi!

Mick
_________________
Mick McKinnon
KOG#175
'93 K1100LT, '96 R1100RT, '84 R100RS, 2010 Kawasaki C-14
Tucson, AZ

1Snowbum · Posted: Sat Mar 15, 2008 10:57 am Post subject:

I actually DID read that section yesterday before we left. I have read it quite a few times in the past. I also have printed copies of some of the www.ibmwr.org articles in that section, and an article by Paul Glaves on the Monolever, some of which does apply to the K11. I think that my confusion PROBABLY was that, for whatever reason, I had the idea that the K11 driveshaft assembly did NOT yank-out, like the Monolever ones do. Of course, perhaps I have the oversize joint, won't know until I try the yanking. If I can't yank it out, will do my best to synch the yolks. I sure hope BMW did nothing totally strange to the yolks....yolks synchronization is normally the same part of each end's yolks in line....NOT at 90°.

Yesterday was also the day I got a nice freebie...an HP officejet Pro K550...with lots of extra brand-new ink cartridges (yep, all those $$ color ones..).

We did have a great time at the Fireman's Ball last night. Lots of dancing with Penny, I think we were the oldest couple there!....won some stuff from the raffles; but, had to drive home, a bit before midnight, through a snowstorm....we had a few inches of White Global Warming last night.....and, darn it, I can't go skiing for several days! I have to repair some equipment in a recording studio this weekend, or would go skiing. I'll be lucky to find any time for the driveshaft and rear end.
_________________
Bob Fleischer, AKA Snowbum
dba Fleischer's Service,
http://bmwmotorcycletech.info

bmwmick · Posted: Sat Mar 15, 2008 5:31 pm Post subject:

1Snowbum · Posted: Sat Mar 15, 2008 6:01 pm Post subject:

Up to my ears in stuff, but managed, on account of the weather, to postpone a job, so yanked the driveshaft. Things look pretty good.
'bum
_________________
Bob Fleischer, AKA Snowbum
dba Fleischer's Service,
http://bmwmotorcycletech.info

bmwmick · Posted: Sat Mar 15, 2008 11:19 pm Post subject:

1Snowbum · Posted: Sat Mar 15, 2008 11:54 pm Post subject:

The driveshaft itself, and the U-joints, and the splines, all looked very good, as did everything except the Paralever bearing inners (still usable though), and maybe the cardan seal. I ordered one of the JL Enterprises Paralever bearing kits...but won't be installing it until much later this year.

What concerned me in particular, and why I took it apart in the first place, was that sidecaring is very hard on the crown wheel main bearing, the Paralever bearings, and the sliding splines at the ass end of the driveshaft.

I put the driveshaft back into the housing this afternoon, and will try to assemble the rear drive to it as soon as I can.

Many thanks to all those who responded to this thread. After I get it back on the road, perhaps in a couple of weeks, after a few more brake modifications, some bracketry changes, and so on, then will decide about the cardan seal.
_________________
Bob Fleischer, AKA Snowbum
dba Fleischer's Service,
http://bmwmotorcycletech.info

jaaars · Joined: 28 Jun 2005 Posts: 19 Location: Ashland Oregon

Hey there~~ look at the front yolk, when it is level (the wide part is even with the ground) make a mark with paint on the rear of the shaft. Then make a mark on the slide on shaft at the same point, line up the marks and asemble the unit. TA-DA drive shaft aligned!!!!!! Good luck. Jeff
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Boot and Saddles

1Snowbum · Posted: Sun Mar 16, 2008 11:53 am Post subject:

Somewhat of what I did. I assembled the rear drive yoke to the driveshaft as close as possible to the position where the yokes closest to the driveshaft were as identical in orientation as possible. I marked the rear of the splined end of the shaft with my engraving tool, filled the mark with white paint. Did same for the rear yoke.
_________________
Bob Fleischer, AKA Snowbum
dba Fleischer's Service,
http://bmwmotorcycletech.info