K11 Owners Group

Stoked Steve · Posted: Tue May 12, 2009 8:44 pm Post subject: U Joint Failure

This afternoon I had the opportunity to pull my rear end and see what exactly failed on my drive shaft during the HM trip.

It looks like the front U-joint just sheared off, in half.

The other half is still up in the housing, attached to the output spline.

Obviously I need a whole new driveshaft, although the rear U-joint looks fine. I guess I could get by with the new front half of the shaft w/U joint and connect it to the OK rear half of the old shaft. Also the inside of the housing got a bit knackered up by the flailing drive shaft, is that a problem?

But my main question is, if I can remove the remains of the front U-joint from the output spline, can I just "snap" a new one in without removing the rest of the swing arm? I'd really like to not have to go to the next step, as it looked complicated in the manual.

Another question, is that the spline that gets lubed during a spline lube? The one up front?

Any help and suggestions are appreciated and welcome!
_________________
Steve
Virginia Beach, VA
93 K1100RS Mystic Red SOLD
12 Suzuki DL650A VStrom

Flying Duck · Posted: Tue May 12, 2009 9:27 pm Post subject:

Wow, that looks like a craptastic failure. Shocked

You can probably get away with just replacing the front half of the drive shaft. Check the motion of the rear U-joint though for smooth travel and no "lumpiness."

You're going to have to remove the swing arm to get the remainder of ithe front half of the drive shaft off. It's held on by a snap ring and you're going to have to pry it off with a large screwdriver or something.

The procedure for removing the swing arm isn't all that complicated. It's a 93 so you'll want to have some lengths of string around to suspend the ABS modulators, the rear caliper and the right peg plate.

Those aren't the critical splines you need to lube. (Though it doesn't hurt to lube them while you have things part.) The ones that need lubing are the transmission input splines which involves suspending the bike on a sawhorse, removing the centerstand and pulling the transmission. You might want to consider doing that since your bike has 30k+ and you have the thing that far torn apart.

I'd also recommend a close examination of the swing arm at the point of failure to see if it caused any cracks or deformation. I would think you'd be OK but you never know.

And remember that on the bright side at least it didn't take you or the bike down.
_________________
93 LT (x2)
94 RS
86-97 K75F(K75/100/1100 Frankenbrick)
86 K75C w/paralever, hi perf cams,TURBO!
91 & 92 K75Ss
91 K1
86 custom K100
14 WR250R
IBA #17739 (SS1K, BBG, 50CC)
Buy parts HERE

Stoked Steve · Posted: Tue May 12, 2009 9:53 pm Post subject:

Thanks for the prompt reply Duck. I was afraid I'd need to pull the swing arm, I can get a hook and line on it, but not enough force to "pop' it out. I did see in the manual about prying it off with a big ass screwdriver.

The good news is that there a shaft with front U-joint listed on Ebay for only $60 that came off a "low mileage" '93 LT. I'm going to buy it before I post this reply.

I had a spline lube done at the dealer at 41k, it now has 50k, so I think I'm Ok there, I just thought if that was it, while I was there, I'd lube it again.

No kidding on the being lucky the rear wheel didn't lock up. All in all, a fortunate "break" indeed.
_________________
Steve
Virginia Beach, VA
93 K1100RS Mystic Red SOLD
12 Suzuki DL650A VStrom

Shoganai · Posted: Thu May 14, 2009 3:37 am Post subject:

I can't see pics at work, but I wanted to follow your progress.

Trust the Duck. Cool

And I'll be standing by if you need me. Wink

_________________
1993 K1100RS aka The Shop Whore
1994 K1100RS aka Blue Streak

The long road is a rainbow and the pot of gold lies there.
So slip the chain and I'm off again,
You'll find me everywhere. I'm a Rover. - JT

Nana korobi ya oki

Stoked Steve · Posted: Thu May 14, 2009 6:57 pm Post subject:

Part II

While I'm waiting for the new (used) drive shaft to arrive, I needed to remove the swing arm and remove the remnants of the front U-joint from the transmission spline.

Removing the swing arm wasn't as bad as I feared, but getting that right side pivot pin plate out was major B*&#ch. I finally pried it out with a big screw driver and tore it up a bit, but I think it'll be OK.

I'm glad I took the swing arm off, because it was full of U-joint debris and need to be cleaned out.

The bike diring her assectomy.

The parts I wish I could get powder coated silver...

The back end of the transmission waiting for the new drive shaft.

The inner rubber boot/sleeve that goes on the front of the swingarm and mates with the back of the transmission is pretty crusty and stiff, I think I'll order and new one if it doesn't cost too much.

So far, so good!
_________________
Steve
Virginia Beach, VA
93 K1100RS Mystic Red SOLD
12 Suzuki DL650A VStrom

Scott_Anderson · Posted: Thu May 14, 2009 7:08 pm Post subject:

Looks good so far Steve, we told you you could do it! Very Happy

Hows the pliability of the rear boot? Might not hurt to change it too.

Don't forget to put yourself a piece of tape over that hole that the speedo sensor came out of, keeps STUFF out of there.
_________________
Ride safe.

1995 K1100LT 0302044
2017 FLHTK Ultra Limited
Garmin StreetPilot 2820
Garmin Zumo 550
Garmin Zumo XT
"One who does not ask questions is ashamed to learn" Danish proverb
1997 K1100LT 0302488(R.I.P.)
1997 R1100RT ZC62149(sold)

Stoked Steve · Posted: Thu May 14, 2009 7:24 pm Post subject:

Thanks Scott, yea, I went ahead and ordered a new rear boot as well, even though that one seems OK, it was only $15 or so.

I think I know why the pivot pin was such a pain to remove. I believe the inside of it got mauled by the driveshaft implosion and the inner surface of it got scrapped up, causing it to bind up on the bearing hole when pulling it out.

I ordered a new one of these, even though it was $29! Crying or Very sad

The chew marks on the plate part were due to me mangling it trying to get it out.

_________________
Steve
Virginia Beach, VA
93 K1100RS Mystic Red SOLD
12 Suzuki DL650A VStrom

Flying Duck · Posted: Thu May 14, 2009 8:34 pm Post subject:

Those are always a PITA to get out. Put lots of grease not only on the bearing surface of it but the rest of it too. That'll make it easier to get out "next time."

I'd recommend doing a spline lube of the transmission input splines given what you've had to remove so far and the bike's mileage. It'll save you some work in the future.

Tip: When you put the swing arm back on put a block of wood under it until you have the final drive and shock installed. If you let it drop too far then the boot in front can pop off.
_________________
93 LT (x2)
94 RS
86-97 K75F(K75/100/1100 Frankenbrick)
86 K75C w/paralever, hi perf cams,TURBO!
91 & 92 K75Ss
91 K1
86 custom K100
14 WR250R
IBA #17739 (SS1K, BBG, 50CC)
Buy parts HERE

Stoked Steve · Posted: Thu May 14, 2009 8:53 pm Post subject:

Thanks for the wood tip, Duck.

I had the spline lube done by the dealer about 9k ago, I was hoping to let that be. How much more is involved dropping the transmission? Looks like the center stand has to come of, what else?
_________________
Steve
Virginia Beach, VA
93 K1100RS Mystic Red SOLD
12 Suzuki DL650A VStrom

BobZ(IL) · Posted: Thu May 14, 2009 9:01 pm Post subject:

As I recall during my imput shaft spline lube, the most troublesome part was removing the frickin battery box. But like Duck says, your almost there and might as well do it.
_________________
'93 K1100LT
'78 R100S
'05 R1200GS
BMWMOA, CRBMWOA, ABC, K11OG #997

Live well, do good work, enjoy the ride.

Flying Duck · Posted: Thu May 14, 2009 9:22 pm Post subject:

Shoganai · Posted: Thu May 14, 2009 9:39 pm Post subject:

I KNEW you could do this job Steve!!! :clap Very Happy

:popcorn
_________________
1993 K1100RS aka The Shop Whore
1994 K1100RS aka Blue Streak

The long road is a rainbow and the pot of gold lies there.
So slip the chain and I'm off again,
You'll find me everywhere. I'm a Rover. - JT

Nana korobi ya oki

Mystic Red · Posted: Fri May 15, 2009 5:23 pm Post subject:

Stoked Steve · Posted: Fri May 15, 2009 7:16 pm Post subject:

Hmmm, thanks for the tip. I wonder if the new boot has a wider flange on it?

I got an email from max BMW today saying one thing on my order is on backorder from Germany. The tiny rubber plug on the rear right pivot bolt. I cooked it while heating the bolt, not knowing I should have removed it before I heated it up.

So for that one part (that I don't need to put it all back together), I'll have to wait a week plus to get my order. I think I'll write them and ask them to send the rest of order, than ship me the little plug when they get it for whatever that shippng costs are.

Got my new (used) drive shaft, note the difference between it and the old one.

Question, I know I need to lube up the splines with the Honda 60 moly, what about the U-joint itself? Should I lube the hinges, or not?
_________________
Steve
Virginia Beach, VA
93 K1100RS Mystic Red SOLD
12 Suzuki DL650A VStrom

Jim · Posted: Fri May 15, 2009 8:08 pm Post subject: u-joint failure

Steve - I don't know if you saw Drake's post about Moly 60 or not:

I found this post by him on the MOA forum so here's what I'll be using on future spline lubes:

Quote: (Glaves)
"Honda Moly 60 is OK, but 60% moly is drier than desirable and has less anti-corrosive characteristics than I personally like. I mix it 50-50 with Wurth 3000 sticky green grease and the results are outstanding."

I was only able to find it online at one place, this Guzzi site:
http://www.mgcycle.com/product_info.php?cPath=23&products_id=1914&osCsid=975120225923dead15ccc08f89c240e5
_________________
Jim
1997 K1100LTSE 94,000 - still has gremlins!
1995 R100RT Classic 16,650 crashed - repaired!
1992 K75RTP 46,000

"We shall not all die, but we shall all be changed."

Mystic Red · Posted: Fri May 15, 2009 8:30 pm Post subject:

Flying Duck · Posted: Fri May 15, 2009 9:33 pm Post subject:

I bought a boot maybe a year and a half ago when the K100RS4V had the boot fire. Got one at the dealer, worked fine.
_________________
93 LT (x2)
94 RS
86-97 K75F(K75/100/1100 Frankenbrick)
86 K75C w/paralever, hi perf cams,TURBO!
91 & 92 K75Ss
91 K1
86 custom K100
14 WR250R
IBA #17739 (SS1K, BBG, 50CC)
Buy parts HERE

MakaSichu · Posted: Sat May 16, 2009 8:59 am Post subject:

That was a lots of metal on the floor!!! Shocked

_________________
"Things are not as they seem, nor are they otherwise." - Buddha

Sonu · Posted: Sat May 16, 2009 11:25 pm Post subject: Re: U Joint Failure

Flying Duck · Posted: Sun May 17, 2009 12:07 am Post subject:

Here's a link to a page I did on drive shaft phasing. If Paul Glaves says something different then I'd recommend taking his advice over mine. I'm just a hack. He's a guru.

http://fdk11.pcriot.com/bmw/tech/driveshaft/phasing.htm
_________________
93 LT (x2)
94 RS
86-97 K75F(K75/100/1100 Frankenbrick)
86 K75C w/paralever, hi perf cams,TURBO!
91 & 92 K75Ss
91 K1
86 custom K100
14 WR250R
IBA #17739 (SS1K, BBG, 50CC)
Buy parts HERE