K11 Owners Group

Scott_Anderson · Posted: Sat Apr 03, 2010 8:40 pm Post subject:

Steve, I was going to say that I also ordered one of those pumps and the shipping was only like $9.50

I can't recall what EB is selling for a tank connector, but I seem to remember Duck or Jim mentioning using a male/female flat 4-wire trailer connector for the fuel tank setup. It's even going to be weather proof.
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Ride safe.

1995 K1100LT 0302044
1997 R1100RT ZC62149
2017 FLHTK Ultra Limited
Garmin StreetPilot 2820
Garmin Zumo 550
Garmin Zumo XT
"One who does not ask questions is ashamed to learn" Danish proverb
1997 K1100LT 0302488(R.I.P.)

joeangi · Posted: Mon Apr 05, 2010 12:28 pm Post subject:

This is what I used for the pump

http://www.easternbeaver.com/Main/Elec__Products/Connectors/250_Connectors/4p250c.jpg
_________________
1994 K1100RS
1986 K100RS

Stoked Steve · Posted: Mon Apr 05, 2010 3:37 pm Post subject:

Thanks Joeangi, I didn't see anything on there specifically listed as such, but figured the four plug would work.

Oh, the fuel pump vendor on Ebay got back to me with $9.38 for shipping, much better than $101!

I think what I'll do is replace the relay and get the new fuel pump ready for installation, put the spade wire connectors on and such and then just store it on the bike in case the original one fails. I've pulled it out on the side of the road before and it's not a big deal to do other than soaking your hands in gasoline.
_________________
Steve
Virginia Beach, VA
93 K1100RS Mystic Red SOLD
12 Suzuki DL650A VStrom

joeangi · Posted: Mon Apr 05, 2010 5:36 pm Post subject:

They are pretty easy to change out. Throw a couple nitrile gloves in your tail section, if you have to change it out on the roadside. The gas will eat through latex gloves....please don't do it barehanded, gas is nasty and easily absorbed.

I too would have been really pissed if I got nailed with $110 in shipping, for a 3 lb. part

Joe
_________________
1994 K1100RS
1986 K100RS

Stoked Steve · Posted: Thu Apr 15, 2010 7:53 pm Post subject:

AARRGGHHH! The bike left me stuck on the side of the road, AGAIN!

During my last garage session this past weekend I repalced the fuel pump relay and had a spare fuel pump prepped for swap stored on the bike. I went ahead and switched out the pump with the new one (on the side of the road) and still nothing. I had done the side stand switch bypass last time and it didn't change anything, but I did not try it this time.

All the lights come on fine, engine turns over fine, there's just no fuel pump "whirr" when I turn the key to on.

This time the pump cut off while at cruising speed on a country road, luckily I was able to coast to a small side road and pull off safely. Last time I was a stop light on a busy boulevard. There doesn't seem to be any rhyme or reason as to when it happens. This first time it happened last fall, it just started working again and was fine for 6 months and about 2,000 miles before it did it again about two weeks ago at the begininning of this post.. This time it's only been a few weeks and maybe 75 miles, so it's getting more frequent.

The connections are all good, nice and clean. Now that I've ruled out the fuel pump or relay, I'm beggining to wonder about the motronic brain, is it just getting dodgy? When it works, it works fine, and then when it goes out, it goes completely and then later on works fine agian. It isn't a quick on and off issue, more like a woman in a bad mood, it lasts for awhile and then all is good again, unitl the next time...

When I go back to retrieve it from the driveway I had to leave it at, it will probably start right back up and be fine.

I'll have to more thoroughly go over the wiring to the tank when I get her back.

This is really gettting annoying, not to mention really shaking my faith in it's long distance abilities.
_________________
Steve
Virginia Beach, VA
93 K1100RS Mystic Red SOLD
12 Suzuki DL650A VStrom

Scott_Anderson · Posted: Thu Apr 15, 2010 10:50 pm Post subject:

Have you tried contact cleaner and dielectric grease on the motronic plug?
How's your wires where they enter the tank, not the connector but where they acutally go in. The part you removed when you had your tank work done.
_________________
Ride safe.

1995 K1100LT 0302044
1997 R1100RT ZC62149
2017 FLHTK Ultra Limited
Garmin StreetPilot 2820
Garmin Zumo 550
Garmin Zumo XT
"One who does not ask questions is ashamed to learn" Danish proverb
1997 K1100LT 0302488(R.I.P.)

joeangi · Posted: Fri Apr 16, 2010 9:54 am Post subject:

Steve,

You are going through the same problem (and solutions) that I did. I haven't put but 150 miles on mine so far this year, but it has not cut out yet. I feel your pain, as I found that "same" side road last summer to coast to a stop in. Yet, when it runs, it runs fine?? Try the motronic plug thing and let me know if it does the trick. I ran a nice ground from mine with a wire under one of the torks screws.

After working on my fuel pump sending unit, it could be a broken wire up to the fuel pump after the connector. It should be pretty easy to put an ohm-meter on each wire, back to the plug. A little tugging on the wire, you should be able to find a break.

Joe
_________________
1994 K1100RS
1986 K100RS

RI Parker · Posted: Fri Apr 16, 2010 12:04 pm Post subject:

I had something like this happen just last week. Turns out I had bumped the 'kill switch'.
If the kill switch is off the pump don't whurr, and the fuel gauge don't work, BUT the started will turn.
Luckly I could cancel the tow-truck, and wasn't late for anything!

So? Check for intermittant contact in the KILL SWITCH ??
_________________
RIP (Roy Parker)

1997 K1100LT w/ 87,000 mi
(aquired just before the snow of 12/21/09.)

Stoked Steve · Posted: Fri Apr 16, 2010 9:12 pm Post subject:

Thanks for the suggestions guys, I will check all of the above.

I got her home tonight (I need to get a Uhaul frequent renters card!) and still no pump action. I put an ohm-meter on the four pin connector (to the fuel tank) coming from the motronic and got 12v on both of the hot wires. So, I'm thinking it probably is an issue between that and the fuel pump, I'll drain the tank and investigate more thoroughly this weekend.

The one variable to that theory is that when I installed the spare fuel pump, I had to cut the ring leads off and crimped on new spade connectors for the new pump, when that pump didn't fire up, I pulled those connectors off and just wrapped the stripped wire around the threaded terminals of the original pump and tightened up the nuts, fully intending to replace the ring terminals later. I would think the connections are OK, but certainly not ideal.

I double checked the kill switch and clicked it back and forth several times. Fuel gauge is working fine.

So, tank draining, removal and thorough inspection of all wires and connectors is on the schedule.

Thanks again for your help.
_________________
Steve
Virginia Beach, VA
93 K1100RS Mystic Red SOLD
12 Suzuki DL650A VStrom

Scott_Anderson · Posted: Fri Apr 16, 2010 10:32 pm Post subject:

Steve, can you read an OHM reading from the tank side of the connector for the wires to the pump?

I measured mine(brn to grn) at 1.1ohm resistance.

Would be curious, have you got some alligator clips, with your meter reading voltage on the motoronic side of the connector, see what happens to the meter reading as you plug in the connector and put a load to the circuit.

You could have a weak connection that will give a voltage reading with no load but won't pass any current when you connect the load.
_________________
Ride safe.

1995 K1100LT 0302044
1997 R1100RT ZC62149
2017 FLHTK Ultra Limited
Garmin StreetPilot 2820
Garmin Zumo 550
Garmin Zumo XT
"One who does not ask questions is ashamed to learn" Danish proverb
1997 K1100LT 0302488(R.I.P.)

Stoked Steve · Posted: Sat Apr 17, 2010 8:14 am Post subject:

You're getting a bit out of my ohm-meter expierience. I can read power easy enough, but I don't know how to test a non-powered wire. I guess the ohm-meter sends power through the wire and then measures it?

Mine is a pretty low level ohm-meter and I don't know if and how to have it send juice, how does that work?

(edit) I think I just figured that out. I found the green ohm setting on the meter and touched the leads to a piece of wire and got a reading. Do'h! The things you don't know you don't know.

I'll check this out further when I get the tank off.
_________________
Steve
Virginia Beach, VA
93 K1100RS Mystic Red SOLD
12 Suzuki DL650A VStrom

Scott_Anderson · Posted: Sat Apr 17, 2010 8:41 am Post subject:

Stoked Steve · Posted: Sat Apr 17, 2010 10:50 am Post subject:

OK, here's what I've found. I pulled out the fuel sending unit that has the wires going to the sender and the pump. I am getting a reading (resistance?) from the pump wires to where they are soldered at the sender connection, both the ground and the yellow. But there is no reading from the yellow solder to the yellow pin in the plug. There is also no reading between the brown and green pins in the connector (tank side) as Scott asked about (although I'm not sure what that has to do with the yellow wire(?))

So, I am assuming there is a break somewhere in the yellow wire from the connector to the solder terminal at the sender unit, sound right?

So, then I'm suspecting the yellow wire in the connector itself or perhaps in the line somewhere, but would tend to suspect the connector first.

Next step, replace the connector?

I know Eastern Beaver sells one, but I'd have to wait for it to arrive from Japan, any ideas on where I could get one, or something similiar more local?

Thanks again for all the help, I'm getting there.
_________________
Steve
Virginia Beach, VA
93 K1100RS Mystic Red SOLD
12 Suzuki DL650A VStrom

SugarHillCTD · Posted: Sat Apr 17, 2010 11:07 am Post subject:

Stoked Steve · Posted: Sat Apr 17, 2010 11:14 am Post subject:

I've already got one '93, I don't think I could handle another one!

Yeah EB's stuff is great and it does come in about 4-5 days, I'm just impatient and want to get this baby back on the road!

Check your PM's Sugarhill!
_________________
Steve
Virginia Beach, VA
93 K1100RS Mystic Red SOLD
12 Suzuki DL650A VStrom

Stoked Steve · Posted: Sat Apr 17, 2010 2:53 pm Post subject:

Another question. I assumed that in the four pin connector, two would be power, and the other two would be grounds.

But after seeing the way those wires connect at the fuel sending unit, I'm thinking maybe the pump does have a power and a ground, but that maybe the sending unit uses two power connections?

At the connector coming from the motronic, I'm getting 7 volts at the yellow wire and 10 volts at the white wire, 0 volts at the brown and 0 volts at the green when the key is switched on. Is this what it's supposed be?

Just wanted to be sure I'm getting the correct voltage coming from the motronic before I start cutting and replacing the connectors.
_________________
Steve
Virginia Beach, VA
93 K1100RS Mystic Red SOLD
12 Suzuki DL650A VStrom

Stoked Steve · Posted: Sat Apr 17, 2010 3:16 pm Post subject:

Here's a few pics of the solder connections at the sender unit. Is that rusty ass ground an issue?

Can someone explain how four wires go in at the connector and only three come out at the sender unit?

I'm also assuming that yellow wire going from the connector becomes the same yellow wire going to the pump. Because I do get a reading from the yellow pin to the other two solder connections, just not the one with the yellow wire attached to it. The other two solder connections just have a small black wires attached to them.

A bit confused.....I can't figure out which wires connect to which at the solder junction.

Thanks.

_________________
Steve
Virginia Beach, VA
93 K1100RS Mystic Red SOLD
12 Suzuki DL650A VStrom

joeangi · Posted: Sat Apr 17, 2010 3:38 pm Post subject:

Steve if you look at my "fuel sending unit repair" (sorry I do not know how to link it) there are some pics that might help. The blueish/ greyish wires go up to the reostat for the fuel gauge. That ground is nasty, but it appears to be spotwelded to the sending unit. I would just clean it up. I am not sure, but I would imagine that the pump shares a ground with one of those wires.
_________________
1994 K1100RS
1986 K100RS

Stoked Steve · Posted: Sat Apr 17, 2010 4:10 pm Post subject:

The ground tab has a black wire soldered to it that goes to the ground on the pump. I do get a good connectivity reading from the end of the black wire (where it would hook up to the pump) and anywhere on the sender brackets, so I believe that connection is fine, just not real pretty!

And yes, I figured the bluish grey wires go to the fuel gauge (which works just fine) 'cause I can see where those go. I just couldn't tell which color wires they came from the connector, white? brown? green? a combination there of? Does the yellow wire in become the yellow wire out?

Here's a lnk to your sender repair article, your ground tab looks a lot nicer than mine!

http://www.k11og.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=8488&highlight=fuel+sending+unit+repair
_________________
Steve
Virginia Beach, VA
93 K1100RS Mystic Red SOLD
12 Suzuki DL650A VStrom

Scott_Anderson · Posted: Sat Apr 17, 2010 4:34 pm Post subject:

Well Steve, from the connector in to the inside of the tank,
Brown will be your common Ground.
Green/wht stripe will be for the fuel pump power.
Yellow is for the fuel level guage.
White is for the low fuel idiot light on the inst cluster.

You will want a good complete circuit, ie 0. ohms or less from the connector to the pump terminals.
_________________
Ride safe.

1995 K1100LT 0302044
1997 R1100RT ZC62149
2017 FLHTK Ultra Limited
Garmin StreetPilot 2820
Garmin Zumo 550
Garmin Zumo XT
"One who does not ask questions is ashamed to learn" Danish proverb
1997 K1100LT 0302488(R.I.P.)