K11 Owners Group

adoria · Last edited by adoria on Mon Jun 11, 2012 6:19 pm; edited 5 times in total

Hi everyone,

this is my first post, so please let me know if i did something wrong posting (i tried reading the noob instructions). i have searched in the threads, but cannot find my specific issue. tried other thread post ideas with no avail.

the issue: a recently purchased 1995 K1100LT that has been sitting for ~2 years. it will not spark...hence does not start. the starter engine turns it over though. i do not hear the fuel pump go on when the kill switch is set to the "ignition ready" position (center position). i know i should hear it prime for a second. i've heard it prime before sporadically when turning the bike on(but not hitting the starter switch), but cannot find how to get it to prime systematically. the faring and audio system are stripped off the bike for me to work on it.

things i have done:
1) fresh new, charged battery

2) put fuel in the tank.

3) kill switch seems to be working fine. engine turns over when pushing the starter button and kill switch turned off.

4) compression check. compression was good on all 4 cylinders. about 123psi on each one with the bike cold. i'd expect it to be higher compression if i could get the bike running and warmed up.

5) checked the side stand switch (bmw dealer mechanic said this a big culprit of the no start causes). switched was functioning fine when i tested it with my multimeter. i even shorted the switch plug that goes back to the computer to ensure this was not the case.

6) checked the plugs(they looked brand new...hmm, did the previous owner forget to tell me something???), wires, ignition coils work by hooking them up to another vehicles ignitor and i DID get spark on the plugs/wires/coils that were in question.

7) checked the fuel pump. resoldered the pump electrical tank connections. tested with 12 VDC at the outside the tank connector side and the pump works.

8 ) checked the hall transmitter (a.k.a. ignition sensor). the sensors were bad! i put exact new sensors in the hall transmitter plate and it's working now perfectly. parts supply wanted $550 total for a new hall transmitter. i know electronics, so i fixed it for much less.

9) checked all relays and fuses in the relay box and fuse panel that is under the area the tank and seat meet. all are good.

10) replaced the fuel pump/fuel level sensor wiring harness connector.

11) cleaned all the electrical connectors i could find with electronics cleaner and compressed air.

12) tested the motronic computer using the instructions found here (http://www.k11og.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2110&highlight=motronic) and did not get any signal flashing on the test LED & temperature warning light. both of these lights just stayed solid on when i grounded the pin 1 for 5 sec. the ABS computer test DID work as described though. my motronic computer looks like this one (http://ep.yimg.com/ca/I/yhst-15102260216258_2211_3747685270).

the fact that 1-11 appear good, makes me concerned that the motronic computer has failed. the bmw dealer mechanic said that rarely happens. maybe im rare?
any help is well appreciated. thank you.
_________________
-andre
______________________
1995 BMW K1100LT

2005 Suzuki V-Strom DL1000
2002 Honda Shadow 750 A.C.E.
1983 Honda Sabre 750 V-4

Scott_Anderson · Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2012 5:56 pm Post subject:

Read thru this post.
http://www.k11og.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=9834

See if it helps shed some more light for you.

And Welcome to the forum.
_________________
Ride safe.

1995 K1100LT 0302044
2017 FLHTK Ultra Limited
Garmin StreetPilot 2820
Garmin Zumo 550
Garmin Zumo XT
"One who does not ask questions is ashamed to learn" Danish proverb
1997 K1100LT 0302488(R.I.P.)
1997 R1100RT ZC62149(sold)

adoria · Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2012 6:10 pm Post subject:

hi scott,

thanks for the reply. i forgot to mention that i did replace the fuel pump/fuel level wiring harness connector. i have updated my initial post to reflect this. sorry.

as your post suggests, i need to check the continuity of the wiring harness that goes back to the relays/computer still. i'll update when i do that.
_________________
-andre
______________________
1995 BMW K1100LT

2005 Suzuki V-Strom DL1000
2002 Honda Shadow 750 A.C.E.
1983 Honda Sabre 750 V-4

Inge K. · Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2012 6:11 pm Post subject:

Hi and welcome!

You mention that you don`t hear the fuel pump, it should run for a couple of seconds when you turn on the ignition.

The positive side of the fuel relay coil is feed from motronic relay, which also partially powers the motronic unit.

Inge K.

Scott_Anderson · Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2012 6:17 pm Post subject:

I had an intermittent issue last fall with my '95 and the fuel pump not running, traced the problem to the multipin connector at the motronic.
Cleaned it and reseated it and the bike has been fine since.
_________________
Ride safe.

1995 K1100LT 0302044
2017 FLHTK Ultra Limited
Garmin StreetPilot 2820
Garmin Zumo 550
Garmin Zumo XT
"One who does not ask questions is ashamed to learn" Danish proverb
1997 K1100LT 0302488(R.I.P.)
1997 R1100RT ZC62149(sold)

Inge K. · Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2012 8:22 pm Post subject:

Did read the thread one more time, you have a link to a Motronic unit which is similar to yours.
That link shows a MA 2.1 unit, which was used up to 07/93.

If you got this unit, my previous reply isn`t correct...since this unit is differently wired...

Inge K.

adoria · Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2012 8:30 pm Post subject:

inge k,

thanks for the notification. yes, that motronic is the one that is on my bike.

i have a further mystery now as you said that motronic unit that i have(see 1st thread posting for url to its picture) was used until 7/93. BUT my bike is a 1995. what could be going on?
questions that come to me:
-from the factory, were the 95 k1100lt bikes using a 93 motronic?
-maybe the previous owner swapped it out?
_________________
-andre
______________________
1995 BMW K1100LT

2005 Suzuki V-Strom DL1000
2002 Honda Shadow 750 A.C.E.
1983 Honda Sabre 750 V-4

Inge K. · Posted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 4:54 am Post subject:

The two Motronic units have different pinouts and wiring harness, so it isn`t a straight swap.
I`ll guess you have a pre 07/93, what`s your VIN #?
You did mention that you got ABS, is the modulator(s) under the seat (from 07/93 on) or at the footrest bridges(up to 07/93)?

Inge K.

adoria · Posted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 9:18 am Post subject:

Hello, According to the pink slip, vin is: wb1053609s0301702
The project bikes are 10 miles away in my nana's garage (my man cave...nana is very kind...cuz my condo has a carport only), so I can check the actual VIN from the frame to insure it matches the paper work on Wednesday or Thursday.

The abs computer is under the seat, right behind the battery if that means post 7/93???! Something is strange if it has a pre 7/93 motronic computer.
_________________
-andre
______________________
1995 BMW K1100LT

2005 Suzuki V-Strom DL1000
2002 Honda Shadow 750 A.C.E.
1983 Honda Sabre 750 V-4

Scott_Anderson · Posted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 5:57 pm Post subject:

Well, by the last 7 of your vin, your production date is 10/94.

Here's a pic of my motronic location and style on my '95. Prod date of 06/95.

I suppose it's possible that yours could have been an "in-between" produciton years bike.
Meaning to say that it could have been assembled with left-over parts of the previous years, Motronic 2.1, abs1, etc....
_________________
Ride safe.

1995 K1100LT 0302044
2017 FLHTK Ultra Limited
Garmin StreetPilot 2820
Garmin Zumo 550
Garmin Zumo XT
"One who does not ask questions is ashamed to learn" Danish proverb
1997 K1100LT 0302488(R.I.P.)
1997 R1100RT ZC62149(sold)

Inge K. · Posted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 6:26 pm Post subject:

This gets....?????...according to the VIN, the bike leaved the factory 10/94, so it`s shure a -95 year model
(the production year starts 09/XX, for next years models).

Could be a former police model? As these ones often is quite different from the ordinary ones....but I don`t know that much about the US models when it comes to that subject........but I`ll guess it`s others in here who do.

And as you also mention that the ABS ECU is behind the battery...it was, on the pre 07/93 models.

On the post 07/93, the modulators and ECU was a integrated unit, located at the left side under the seat (battery at the right side along the bike, with the motronic unit at the top).

Motronic post 07/93

Modulators/ECU post 07/93

Modulator pre 07/93

Inge K.

Inge K. · Posted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 6:39 pm Post subject:

Scott did post in between........I`m kind of slow.......and it`s not my native language.

I just could add that I got a 12/93, with Motronic MA 2.2 and ABS II...but of course a euro model.

Inge K.

adoria · Posted: Fri Jun 15, 2012 3:46 am Post subject:

thanks for the new information guys. i am not sure what to make of this montronic issue yet. i have scheduled to meet with the guy i purchased the bike from next wednesday. hopefully after a couple beers he may confess some new information or history on the bike.

breaking news: tonight i found that one of the hall sensors (new ones) on the hall transmitter is toast. i think that the wiring may be incorrect.

on the round hall transmitter connector, there are 4 pertinent wires: red, orange, black, brown.

each of the hall sensors (there are two sensors) has three wires: red(+12V), black(-), green(signaling)
===========================================
can someone please verify that this hall transmitter wiring is proper:

connector side ---------- sensor side
red(+12V) -----------> both red wires
black(-) --------------> both black wires
orange ---------------> TDC sensor signal output green wire (TDC = Top Dead Center)
brown ----------------> 180 degree from TDC sensor signal output green wire
===========================================

the fuel pump still does not prime when i turn the ignition on, so unless it is tied to the hall transmitter, i think that there still may be an issue with the montronic computer or it's wiring/connector. those items still are on my to do list while i wait for a new hall sensor to arrive.
_________________
-andre
______________________
1995 BMW K1100LT

2005 Suzuki V-Strom DL1000
2002 Honda Shadow 750 A.C.E.
1983 Honda Sabre 750 V-4

Inge K. · Posted: Fri Jun 15, 2012 10:04 am Post subject:

Orange wire should be connected to the top sensor, and at pin 8 at the Motronic MA 2.1 unit.
Brown wire should be connected to the bottom sensor, and at pin 26 at the Motronic MA 2.1 unit.

And the fuel pump rely on the hall sensor signal to run (after start up).
The earlier mentioned priming function is valid on MA 2.2, but I assume it`s similar on MA 2.1.
But on the other hand, Jetronic euqipped K100`s primes when the start button is pressed.

Inge K.

adoria · Posted: Wed Jul 11, 2012 2:11 am Post subject:

been a while since my last post. i had several weeks of work travels in europe that prevented me from working on the bike and i just arrived back a day ago and worked on the bike tonight. thanks to all the suggestions.

the latest:
1) the fuel pump is now priming perfectly fine.
2) verified the computer appears to be operating well and sending the "fire the coils" signal (from pins 1 & 2 montronic 2.1).
3) the plugs still do not spark.

i previously mentioned that i was able to hook up the coils, plug wires, plugs to my truck using test leads from the trucks ignitor. seems unlikely that they would become broken when installed on the k1100. there is only one other component between the computer and the ignition coils, that is the Zündendstufe...ignition control unit (http://www.ebay.com/itm/93-BMW-K1100LT-Ignition-Control-Unit-/360447311890?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&hash=item53ec558012&vxp=mtr#ht_763wt_1153). any thoughts?

i can measure a signal on the ignition control unit "output to coils" two pin connector, but im not certain this is the right signal.
-does anyone know what the signal should be?
-OR is there anyone in san diego, california with a k1100 that would be willing to let me test my coils on their bike and/or watch the ignition control unit signal with my o-scope?
-OR another way to test the ignition control unit without purchasing a new one yet (cost $160 usd)?
_________________
-andre
______________________
1995 BMW K1100LT

2005 Suzuki V-Strom DL1000
2002 Honda Shadow 750 A.C.E.
1983 Honda Sabre 750 V-4

Inge K. · Posted: Wed Jul 11, 2012 7:12 am Post subject:

adoria · Posted: Wed Jul 11, 2012 3:07 pm Post subject:

Inge K. · Posted: Wed Jul 11, 2012 4:27 pm Post subject:

adoria · Posted: Wed Jul 11, 2012 5:52 pm Post subject:

Hi Inge k,
Yes we definitely agree. I'm am at the bike now and I:
1) o-scoped the signal going into the primary coil from the ignition amplifier. This pin is grounded when not firing (the other pin of the 2 pin coil connector is +12v ALWAYS, as we knew previously). When firing, the ignition amplifier signal going into the primary coil seems to bounce up to approximately +3-4v. so when not firing the voltage across the coils is +12v and when firing it is +8-9v. Does this seems correct or is a larger voltage change required to spark?

2) because of the above an led hooked across the 2-pin coil connector is on always and flashed brightness when firing as we expect.

Does this seem right and something else (coils?) are bad OR is this improper functioning of the ignition amplifier.

Coil resistance is : primary 0.7 ohms. Secondary ~13k ohms
Spark wire resistance : 5.9k-6.12k ohms. Seems a bit higher than the 5k ohms rating stamped on the wires. Maybe this is reducing the voltage??? Though I hooked up an incandescent light bulb (~75 ohms cold) straight to the coil spark plug wire output(one of the secondary coil outputs) and the to ground and received no flashing of the bulb. Maybe the coils are bad??? Seems strange that both coils would be bad but it's possible.
_________________
-andre
______________________
1995 BMW K1100LT

2005 Suzuki V-Strom DL1000
2002 Honda Shadow 750 A.C.E.
1983 Honda Sabre 750 V-4

Inge K. · Posted: Wed Jul 11, 2012 9:09 pm Post subject:

1. Have never measured the voltage drop at the coils, when a spark is induced...so really can`t tell.
But I would guess that this is normal.
2. I would expect the diode to go out for short period, at the firing point.

Coil resistance is normal............is the ground wire to the iron cores connected, and have proper ground?

About HT leads resistance, if genuine wires it should be a 5K ohm resistor in the cap and a 1K resistor at the coil connector,
and added to that resistor sparkies should be used.

A simple an easy coil test, connect and ground a spark plug to both HT leads.
Then jump the primary winding, as you disconnect the negative...you should get a fat blue spark on both plugs.

Inge K.