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crankcase breather mod.

 
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Thedodge
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Joined: 28 Apr 2011
Posts: 33
Location: Old Isleworth, middx, West london, England.

PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2012 11:50 am    Post subject: crankcase breather mod. Reply with quote

I am trying to locate a post relating to modification of the crankcase breather, not having much success Sad . Can anybody please point me in the right direction? Thanks.
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Scott_Anderson
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Joined: 05 Sep 2006
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Location: Central Iowa, USA

PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2012 12:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'll do some searching, it's buried in another thread. I'll see if I can find it.
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1997 K1100LT 0302488
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Scott_Anderson
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2012 12:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok here's what I found.

Read the 2nd post by Max. No pics included but he describes it pretty well.

http://www.k11og.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6515
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1997 K1100LT 0302488
1995 K1100LT 0302044
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Garmin Zumo 550
"One who does not ask questions is ashamed to learn" Danish proverb
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Thedodge
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Joined: 28 Apr 2011
Posts: 33
Location: Old Isleworth, middx, West london, England.

PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2012 12:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thankyou for such a speedy response, i'll have a look now.
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bmwblock



Joined: 26 Mar 2011
Posts: 5

PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2012 10:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok, from what I've read this is the setup after modification. Has anyone done this and can verify this diagram is correct??? Oh! and the PVC should be PCV valve.

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Scott_Anderson
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2012 10:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Your diagram looks right by my understanding of what was done. I hadn't thought about the pcv valve, it's a good idea.
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1997 K1100LT 0302488
1995 K1100LT 0302044
Garmin StreetPilot 2820
Garmin Zumo 550
"One who does not ask questions is ashamed to learn" Danish proverb
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Rafal
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Joined: 05 Jan 2009
Posts: 257
Location: Wroclaw, Poland

PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2012 9:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi!

Great drawing - helps a lot. AFAIK after reading Max posts, and PM with him, the modification looks as below:

There are two outputs form cyclonic separator one to timing chain cover - oil return pipe, one to balance rail on TBs - this is air/oil mist return, both must be sealed.
New rail is made of vacuum tube with T connectors. The solution is simmilar to the one on K1200RS:


Best regards
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K1100RS is a real beast (in Marrakesh Red)
K75S is a real beauty - she has gone Sad, but not to far Smile.

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bmwblock



Joined: 26 Mar 2011
Posts: 5

PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2012 9:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rafal wrote:
Hi!

Great drawing - helps a lot. AFAIK after reading Max posts, and PM with him, the modification looks as below:

There are two outputs form cyclonic separator one to timing chain cover - oil return pipe, one to balance rail on TBs - this is air/oil mist return, both must be sealed.
New rail is made of vacuum tube with T connectors. The solution is simmilar to the one on K1200RS:


Best regards


Was reading one of Max's posts here:

"OK:

1) block off the combination oil return/fuel tank vent on the front of the engine case - block it off totally.
2) Modify the the throttle body crankcase suction lines so that the angled take-off point in the center is plugged and the END nearest the main crankcase breather outlet (the old K100 position, "big" one) is the connection point.
3) connect the main outlet with the modified runner - I used some generic hose, it's not high temp/pressurised.
4) block off all the old hosing to the oil separator (old instrument cluster bulbs fit nicely!) so the airbox "clean side" is airtight.

The K1200 diagrams aren't that clear either, but they don't show all the oil separator hoses (and I checked this layout with Allen too, who had been through it on his 1200-engined 1100RS).

Max
"

On the 1st paragraph he seems to be saying he blocks off the oil return fitting on the front of the engine totally. Looking at the diagraml, it seems that adding the 2nd rail on the sync ports is redundant. You could still tie the front engine vent port on the block into the old rail on the back of the injector bodies?

I could be wrong.

Regards

Dale.
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Rafal
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Joined: 05 Jan 2009
Posts: 257
Location: Wroclaw, Poland

PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2012 4:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My conversation with Max:
Quote:

Hi again.

> I am wander if additional rail on TB sync nipples is required.

YES - this is what gives the vacuum when the bike is idling.

> The first matter is weather the additional rail helps to keep
> synchronisation between throttles, as it distributes vacuum
> equally.

Yes, that's what they do on the older K1200s. Balance up your TBs normally before... only thing we don't have compared to the K1200s is the "idle control valve", which is an electronic air valve controlled by the Motronic ECU to manage the air bypass dynamically (on the fly) - we just have to adjust the TB bypass screws.

> Secondly is it possible and useful to put T junction between NRV
> and existing rail and connect form it to timing chain cover nipple?

Don't do this... Imagine there are two "sides" to the throttle bodies. The TB sync pipes are connected on the engine side, and with the butterflies CLOSED (idling) they get a HIGH vacuum.
The original crankcase breather "rail" is on the airbox side, and at idle (butterflies closed) is at LOW vaccum - almost normal air pressure.
As the throttles open, the vacuum seen by both becomes more & more the same, but waht we want is the HIGH vacuum at IDLE so that no oil gets blown out past seals etc.

If you do what you are suggesting, you will "short out" the high & low vacuum sides - it will make the air take the easiest path, eg bypass the throttle butterflies and go from the airbox to the old rail to the connecting hose to the new rail to the TB sync tubes to the cylinders... Your idle will go way up, and the crankcase doesn't see the vacuum at all.

Put the new line from the HIGH new vacuum rail to the timing cover, and block off all the other connections there. This should mean that
- there are only 2 connections to the crankcase - 1 at the timing cover, the other at the coils (the one with the NRV)
- the crankcase always sees the high vacuum, even at idle
- usually the NRV is kept sucked CLOSED by the high vacuum
- if the crankcase ever has a problem and still sees a positive pressure somehow, the NRV will blow open and let the pressure out the old breather rail rather than over-pressurize the crankcase and force oil out (eg onto clutch etc)

Only other thing to worry about - the idle speed will be partially set by the TB sync screws, and partially by how leaky your seals are - eg how much air can get into the crankcase!... Just balance your TBs before you set everything up, and if the idle is too high take ALL the TB sync screws down EQUALLY (eg all 1/8th turn or whatever) until you're back at being OK (my idle is set at ~1050-1100 anyway, that way I know the alternator is charging because I don't have the lights dimming whan I have the hazard lights on!)

> If you can share tour experience with me I would help me a lot to
> make plans for my machine upgrade.

Hope this helps... The KRS here isn't leaking any oil any more: some slight misting, but no drips like before (even when I had stop-leak in it too!) - and it doesn't smoke or use any oil (usually 5000kms between changes). Idle is very smooth, and the mod works with the CCS100 cruise-control mod too - just tap into the added high-vacuum "rail".

Good luck

Max


BR
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Rafal
K1100RS is a real beast (in Marrakesh Red)
K75S is a real beauty - she has gone Sad, but not to far Smile.

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bmwblock



Joined: 26 Mar 2011
Posts: 5

PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2012 12:49 pm    Post subject: Breather Mod. Reply with quote

Ok, so This is what it should look Like.

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Thedodge
Brick Rider


Joined: 28 Apr 2011
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Location: Old Isleworth, middx, West london, England.

PostPosted: Sun May 05, 2013 3:36 am    Post subject: Breather mod. Reply with quote

I am just about to carry out this work, but i just wanted some advice. It looks easier to connect the front engine breather to the existing vacuum rail (on the back of the throttle bodies), incorporating the nrv. The rear crankcase breather then connects to the new breather rail (on the front of the throttle bodies). What i am getting at is whether swapping over the two new vacuum feeds will cause a problem. I bought the nrv from a bmw car dealer locally for 5.30.
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Rafal
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Joined: 05 Jan 2009
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Location: Wroclaw, Poland

PostPosted: Sun May 05, 2013 5:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello!

Only rear nipple is connected to crankcase. The front one is connected to timing chain case. It was designed as oil return port from separator.

Best regards,
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Rafal
K1100RS is a real beast (in Marrakesh Red)
K75S is a real beauty - she has gone Sad, but not to far Smile.

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blubrick



Joined: 17 Sep 2013
Posts: 6

PostPosted: Fri Jul 04, 2014 5:44 am    Post subject: on the edge... Reply with quote

Been looking at the post "cranck case breather mod", and ready to impliment it however can someone take a couple snap shots of this completed project. Thanks and wishes for a splendid independence day. Sincerely
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