K11 Owners Group

k12smitty · Joined: 26 Mar 2012 Posts: 5 Location: Warner Robins, GA

The battery was dead in my '97 K1100LT. It wouldn't take a charge from my battery tender or Schumaker charger so I assumed the battery was history. I took the one year old battery (Exide BMW AGM) to a local battery distributor to have it checked out. I was told the battery was completely dead and that the charger I was using didn't have enough amps to kick start the battery enough to charge. The battery guy put a super charge on the battery and brought it back to life. I put the battery back in the bike and connected all the positive leads. As soon as I touched the negative lead the starter started turning over and smoke started coming up from the middle of the bike. The ignition key was in the off position. I immediately removed the negative lead. The starter probably turned over no more than 2 seconds. Since the computer was not in the bike the bike was not going to start. I started immediately trying to investigate where the smoke was coming from. The wiring harness bundle that goes down to the oxygen sensor on the catylictic converter was very warm. It appeared to be the only part of the harness that was effected. Several years ago I had the problem where the solenoid under the gas tank stuck and the starter continued turning after the ignition was turned off. Could this be the problem again? The problem with the stuck solenoid usually happens when you try starting a bike with a weak battery. This was not the case here. The battery was at full charge. Any suggestions as to what may be going on here? Crying or Very sad

Thanks,
Steve
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Ride Safely,
Steve

'09 K1200LT
'97 K1100LT

Inge K. · Posted: Sat Nov 03, 2012 7:07 pm Post subject: Re: Battery, solenoid, ?

k12smitty · Joined: 26 Mar 2012 Posts: 5 Location: Warner Robins, GA

Inge, Any idea why the wiring harness got hot? I don't remember this happening when I had the welded solenoid before. Do you think the harness was damaged enough to warrant a new harness? I can't tell that the outer covering is melted or anything like that.
_________________
Ride Safely,
Steve

'09 K1200LT
'97 K1100LT

Inge K. · Posted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 1:21 am Post subject:

Sorry Steve, got no idea what caused your mystery smoke and hot harness.
When the starter relay have welded contacts, the only wire that is powered
is the one between the starter and the relay, and the negative side of the
coil to the load shedding relay.

It could be that you have a short along the path of these wires,
or the unconnected ECU connector have shorted something.

About the oxygen sensor, it have a heating circuit that could be shorted,
but that is powered by the fuel pump relay.....and I don`t see any reason
the welded starter relay contacts should affect the fuel pump relay.

It could be that you have a issue more than the welded starter relay contacts??
You find out when you got the starter relay sorted.....report back when
you reach that far....Good luck.

Inge K.

Number 6 · Posted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 1:34 am Post subject:

By the way the starter is not a solenoid type.
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I am not a number, I am a free man.

94 K1100LT

Inge K. · Posted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 2:20 am Post subject:

To mr. #6.
The word solenoid is often used about relays, which is what Steve have in mind.

From Wiki:

A solenoid [nb 1] is a coil wound into a tightly packed helix. In physics, the term solenoid refers to a long, thin loop of wire, often wrapped around a metallic core, which produces a magnetic field when an electric current is passed through it. Solenoids are important because they can create controlled magnetic fields and can be used as electromagnets. The term solenoid refers specifically to a coil designed to produce a uniform magnetic field in a volume of space (where some experiment might be carried out).

Inge K.

k12smitty · Joined: 26 Mar 2012 Posts: 5 Location: Warner Robins, GA

Thanks Inge and #6. I will replace the RELAY and then report back to this group. Since I bought my K12LT my old trusty K11LT doesn't get ridden as much as it used to, but with 110K miles it has been pretty much trouble free. You just gotta love this K bikes.
Steve
_________________
Ride Safely,
Steve

'09 K1200LT
'97 K1100LT

Inge K. · Posted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 10:49 am Post subject:

To replace the relay isn`t really needed, a couple of gentle taps with the rearside of a screwdriver handle is usually enough to free the contacts.

If that doesn`t help, the relay can be opened and the contacts separated.....then clean the contacts with some fine emery paper.

Inge K.

Tyronewildman · Joined: 16 May 2012 Posts: 24 Location: Tyrone, Georgia USA

k12smitty · Joined: 26 Mar 2012 Posts: 5 Location: Warner Robins, GA

Thanks De. That is some good information. I have a friend in Tyrone that you may know. His name is Buster Moldenhauer and he is an RT rider.
_________________
Ride Safely,
Steve

'09 K1200LT
'97 K1100LT

Ernie-NH · Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 9:28 am Post subject:

Hallo Inge... Hallo Steve....

On your "starter and smoking" situation... when all the battery power is 'flooding' back to (-) because of welded contacts or bad relay.. the shortest and least resistive path is through the frame and then through the ( seemingly unneeded ) wire from the 'ground spade lug" at the back of the ECU housing direct to battery (-). The higher resistance path is of course the heavy ground strap which leads directly from the battery (-) to the starter mounting bolt at the rear of the starter. I know that this smaller (AWG 12 ) stranded wire appears unnecessary, BUT I leave it connected ( or replace it as a safety ) so that it can fry instead of any other wires in the harness.. I have experienced the "hung starter" problem on two occasions and in both instances the unnecessary wire fried and NONE of the others got warm, because the acrid smoke is detected so quickly!! I'm not sure what was the designer's intention for this connector lug at the back of the ECU housing was, but that has been my experience, and it has paid off on those two occasions. BTW my problem in both instances was a faulty non-OEM ( ie:cheap) relay..

However, I also want to add, that IF you have not done it, remove and clean your starter inside and out !! You will be amazed at the level of debris and crud that will be removed.

Good luck with your problem.... ride safe......// Ernie in NH
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Airhead Beemers Club
'11 G650gs
'95 K1100LT
'76 R100/7

Number 6 · Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 10:14 am Post subject:

The grounding of the ECU housing is to insulate it from external electromagnetic fields.
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I am not a number, I am a free man.

94 K1100LT

Ernie-NH · Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 11:01 am Post subject:

Good morning "6"...

The ECU housing is already grounded at the forward end.

Good luck....// Ernie in NH
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AMA,, American Deaf Bikers
Airhead Beemers Club
'11 G650gs
'95 K1100LT
'76 R100/7

Number 6 · Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 11:07 am Post subject:

Ernie-NH · Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 12:07 pm Post subject:

Hello "6"...

What do I mean ?? The forward end of the ECU is secured to the Battery Hold Down plate ( metal to metal ),,, the Battery Hold Down plate is secured to the Battery Tray with 2 long bolts ( metal to metal ),,, the Battery Tray is secured to the Frame ( metal to metal ) the Frame ( ie structure ) is at Ground Potential ( or at least it should be )... thus the ECU is already grounded without benefit of the 'spade lug' at the rear of the ECU.

Ride safe.......// Ernie in NH
_________________
AMA,, American Deaf Bikers
Airhead Beemers Club
'11 G650gs
'95 K1100LT
'76 R100/7

Inge K. · Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 6:05 pm Post subject:

Hi Ernie!

Good point about the earth connection, it have been issues here earlier with that ground wire
to the Motronic housing.....should have remember those....

Erlier it have been caused by poor connection at the battery main ground at the starter,
which 1. also could be the reason this time, or 2. not all ground wires being connected while connecting the battery.
Which also could explain why the oxygen sensor wires turning warm...

About ground path, the battery carrier is rubber mounted (but haven`t checked if it got an own ground wire)...........
But the Motronic itself got four other ground wires (could be more), which some (or All) of them have to be connected
to housing internally....ref. earlier issues.

Inge K.

k12smitty · Joined: 26 Mar 2012 Posts: 5 Location: Warner Robins, GA

In my case the ECU and the battery hold down plate were not in place. It was easier to get to the battery connections before re-installing this stuff. Is it better to re-install all this before reconnecting the battery. Maybe this is why the harness going down to the catylictic converter got hot? Maybe this was the path of least resistance? I haven't had a chance to work on this since it happened but hope to do so in the next day or so.
_________________
Ride Safely,
Steve

'09 K1200LT
'97 K1100LT

Ernie-NH · Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 7:57 pm Post subject:

Hi Inge...

Re: ""the battery carrier is rubber mounted"".... on my Battery Tray ( lower end ), there are what looks like two aluminum bushings ( Buchse ) through which are the securing bolts from Tray to Frame. I dont know why mine would be rigid and yours rubber mounted. Design change ?? When I use a continuity check, I find direct continuity between the ECU outer housing and anyplace on the frame. Just for your and my information, when I get past the USA Election Day, I am going to measure the two most likely resistance paths and will let you know.

Very best regards......// Ernie in NH
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AMA,, American Deaf Bikers
Airhead Beemers Club
'11 G650gs
'95 K1100LT
'76 R100/7

Number 6 · Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 8:14 pm Post subject:

Ernie-NH · Posted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 10:24 am Post subject:

Good morning"6"..

Re:""You should test it, it is all painted and shouldn't be grounded.""....

Answer: Yes, I have, and it is. End of story!

God luck,,, ride safe.........// Ernie in NH
_________________
AMA,, American Deaf Bikers
Airhead Beemers Club
'11 G650gs
'95 K1100LT
'76 R100/7