K11 Owners Group

Corkboy

Hi all,
I am straddling the two forums K100 (Corkboy), and here (Buddyboy) as I have just sold my K100RS and bought a K1100LT.

It must be like potty training your second child. I had the K100 just as I wanted it, no vibes and sweet as a nut, then went and bought a K1100LT which, although not a basket case - needed a lot of work to bring it back from the brink.

I am fortunate to have functioning ABS 2. As it is the first time I've had ABS I have a question - when I am coming to a stop, just before completely stopping, the ABS seems to give the leaver a little "jump". Is this normal behaviour?

I am currently almost finished, an end to end service, (and repair of all the cack-handed maintenance that went before). I changed the oil filter to find that the PO had left the tool attached to the filter - at least now I have two filter removal tools Very Happy

.

I will leave the valves and splines until I have a few more miles on the bike, and do them over the winter. As theres only 48k miles on it, I shouldn't find any suprises (famous last words!).
_________________
'08 K1200GT
'87 K100RS 0140995 (Gone)
'97 K1100LT 0188024 (Gone)
'08 Transalp 700 (Gone)

Dieselyoda · Joined: 23 Feb 2014 Posts: 23 Location: Winnipeg, MB

When the ABS comes on, in almost any vehicle so equipped, never "pump" the brakes like you would in the old days.
The pressure you maintain is allowing the ABS to maintain it's threshold on braking. When you release the pressure, the ABS quits functioning for a moment. It requires constant pressure.
With some systems, you can actually "pump" the system to total brake failure.
I have ABS II on an R1100RT and I can say that after one panic stop last season, I will never ride without it.
My K1100RS has ABS I and have yet to experience how well it does because the bike is in about 1,000 pieces.

Corkboy · Posted: Mon Mar 03, 2014 4:15 pm Post subject:

I think you misunderstood.

The ABS wasn't coming on, and I didn't pump the brakes. What happened is that during normal stopping, the ABS seemed to "kick" the lever just as I was about to stop completely. The tyre wasn't losing traction.
_________________
'08 K1200GT
'87 K100RS 0140995 (Gone)
'97 K1100LT 0188024 (Gone)
'08 Transalp 700 (Gone)

Scott_Anderson · Posted: Mon Mar 03, 2014 7:54 pm Post subject:

You should check/verify the gap at the ABS wheel sensors.
Front
0.50mm-0.55mm up to model year 1996
0.45mm-0.55mm from model year 1997 on.

Rear
0.60mm-0.65mm up to model year 1996
0.45mm-0.55mm from model year 1997 on.

Sounds like you might be borderline one way or the other.

If you have the factory tool roll, you might have a gap tool for checking them. Some tool rolls came with them, some didn't.
_________________
Ride safe.

1995 K1100LT 0302044
2017 FLHTK Ultra Limited
Garmin StreetPilot 2820
Garmin Zumo 550
Garmin Zumo XT
"One who does not ask questions is ashamed to learn" Danish proverb
1997 K1100LT 0302488(R.I.P.)
1997 R1100RT ZC62149(sold)

Tim (Midland Section) · Posted: Mon Mar 03, 2014 8:29 pm Post subject:

Sounds to me like it's less to do with ABS & more to do with the brakes needing a good service, sticky calipers, cracked or warped disc perhaps?
_________________
Regards Tim,

Grey haired riders don't get that way by pure luck
1996 Guzzi Cali3 LAPD
1972 750 Commando
G6HRN
#485

Dieselyoda · Joined: 23 Feb 2014 Posts: 23 Location: Winnipeg, MB

I believe the ABS II doesn't care what bike it's on as they look almost the same from a K to an R.
Does your ABS do it's "learn" in the first few feet? Does it do a "re-learn" every twelve minutes or so?

Inge K. · Posted: Tue Mar 04, 2014 3:01 am Post subject:

The ABS carries out a self test when you passing ~6-7 km/h and extinguishes the warning lamps...if all is OK.
But it countinues to do this self test everytime you passing this 6-7 km/h. point, either the speed goes up or down.

Corkboy · Posted: Tue Mar 04, 2014 5:32 am Post subject:

Thanks for the answers guys - very helpful.

Tim, the brakes have just been fully serviced, calipers cleaned, new pads and full bleed- but thanks for the suggestion. It is definitely a single pump on the lever/fluid - not the regular pulse of a warped disk.

Inge K - this could be a factor, it could be doing a self-test as I roll to a stop, and what I am feeling is the effect of this on the fluid/lever. I am meeting for a ride out on the 15th and there is at least one other bike with ABS 2 so I can do a comparison.

Scott - you are right, the gap in the front sensor is out - larger than it shoud be - by a fair margin. This could be fooling the ABS brain at the edge of stopping.

Luckly Rolling Eyes

both fork seals are blown so I ordered the seals, gaiters, and two new sensor screws (I know I am going to bugger them taking them out). So I can re-gap the sensor when I remount it.

So the first port of call is to get the sensor gap correct, then take it from there.

Thanks again guys.
_________________
'08 K1200GT
'87 K100RS 0140995 (Gone)
'97 K1100LT 0188024 (Gone)
'08 Transalp 700 (Gone)

Corkboy · Posted: Sat Mar 08, 2014 8:29 am Post subject:

Hi guys,
just an update.
Replaced the fork seals (and yes, put in gaiters ) Laughing

The abs sensor was the worst part of the whole process. What a PITA to get apart. Liberal use of plusgas, a vice grips, and appeals to the great mechanic in the sky finally shifted it.

When remounting liberal amounts of copperslip were applied.

I re-shimmed it and all seems to be well. The single kick in the leaver is gone. I can hear the abs sefltest every time a pass 6mph (as Inge K mentioned).

So all is well, it's time to stop working on it and start riding the thing.

Looking forwards to a summer of bonding.
_________________
'08 K1200GT
'87 K100RS 0140995 (Gone)
'97 K1100LT 0188024 (Gone)
'08 Transalp 700 (Gone)

Scott_Anderson · Posted: Sat Mar 08, 2014 12:04 pm Post subject:

One extra comment I will add, when mounting the front wheel to the bike, be careful when installing the axle thru the forks and wheel bearing.
If you get the bearing spacers on the wrong side, the wheel most likely won't turn.
After you have it all together, before you tighten the axle clamp bolts, snug up the axle end bolt. Then give the fork bottoms a thump or two with a rubber or wood mallet to help make sure all is seated, square and true.
Measure your abs gap, and if all is well, torque the axle end bolt, check the abs gap, torque the bottom clamp bolts and all should be well.
_________________
Ride safe.

1995 K1100LT 0302044
2017 FLHTK Ultra Limited
Garmin StreetPilot 2820
Garmin Zumo 550
Garmin Zumo XT
"One who does not ask questions is ashamed to learn" Danish proverb
1997 K1100LT 0302488(R.I.P.)
1997 R1100RT ZC62149(sold)

Corkboy · Posted: Sat Mar 08, 2014 12:45 pm Post subject:

Thanks Scott,
yep, performed a similar procedure.
Tightened up the axle bolt, and the left hand clamp bolts, after a couple of smacks of the mallet. Then hold on the brakes and bounce the wheel a few times to settle the right hand fork. Then tighten the right hand clamp bolts.

When I was putting the axle back initially I had to loosen the fork brace bolts (I had removed the brace and mudguard to do the fork seals). This allowed the forks to rotate a smidgen to line them up to slip the axle through.

Hopefully I wont have to go near them again until the front tyre wears out.

Regarding the spacers, I always but them on the axle immediately after removing it and set it aside so they cant get mixed up.
_________________
'08 K1200GT
'87 K100RS 0140995 (Gone)
'97 K1100LT 0188024 (Gone)
'08 Transalp 700 (Gone)

Number 6 · Posted: Sat Mar 08, 2014 9:41 pm Post subject:

I had the same issue, sensor was loose, tightening it fixed it.
It looks like the sensor still catches the signal with enough speed but at very low seed it looses the signal, hence the ABS computer thinks the wheel is blocked and releases the pressure.
_________________
I am not a number, I am a free man.

94 K1100LT

grant93 · Posted: Sun Mar 09, 2014 4:59 pm Post subject:

Gidday,

Interesting thread, some great advice handed out also.

After reading this post I went straight back out to the workshop and re-installed the blue relay and then plugged the connection back up to the main brains of the ABS and had another go at mine as I am still having trouble with my ABS 2 - 93 LT, yes I had disconnected to get the bike registered late last year.

Over the past 12 months I have read the codes and I get 4 blinks (rear main sensor).

I have purchased another rear sensor, tried that and the same 4 blinks come up.

The spacers and gaps are measured always, I have had the wheel off and on many times.

I purchased a good working main ABS 2 unit off ebay here in OZ, just because the price was right ($150.00) and I grabbed it for a spare and it also came with front and back sensors which I installed the rear one when it arrived and the same 4 blinks come up on the code reader and no I have not installed the main brain unit yet.

So last night as I said i went out to the shed and hooked up the blue relay and main connection to get it the back to having the constant flashing ABS lights on the dash, yes the flashing stops when I hit the ABS button, yes they start flashing again after a few minutes of riding..

I reset the codes, and 4 blinks always, I done this about 6 times as I read where you sometimes need to do it many times before they reset.

My next thing is to just leave it connected and flashing and black tape the dash panel..

Because I have never experienced riding a bike with ABS, if I am out riding with the tape covered over the dash lights and all of a sudden the ABS magically starts to work, will I know or feel anything different, I gather not but I am just asking the question..

Any other info would be great, am I missing something very silly right in front of me.

If not my next step is to replace the main unit but the code never shows faulty unit, just rear sensor always.
_________________
Cheers Grant

1994 K1100RS
1981 R100RS
1978 R100RS
1928 Chevrolet tourer

www.montythe1928chevrolet.blogspot.com.au

Dieselyoda · Joined: 23 Feb 2014 Posts: 23 Location: Winnipeg, MB

Make sure you have continuity between the sensor and your main ABS connector. If you have access to a frequency meter, from the main connector, turn the rear wheel and you should see the pulses.
Sounds like you have a broken wire to me.

grant93 · Posted: Sun Mar 09, 2014 8:47 pm Post subject:

Gidday,

Nope I had that check by a auto electrician who used the correct tester and I seen the reading..

HHmmmm Sad

_________________
Cheers Grant

1994 K1100RS
1981 R100RS
1978 R100RS
1928 Chevrolet tourer

www.montythe1928chevrolet.blogspot.com.au

Dieselyoda · Joined: 23 Feb 2014 Posts: 23 Location: Winnipeg, MB

If you have wheel bearings or in this case, bearings in the final drive that are worn, they can set up a harmonic resonance that sends signals out of synch to what the ABS brain can see.
That should be easy enough to feel. Just light the bike up on the center stand in first and hold something solid. If you can feel vibration, use a stethoscope to get to the source.
I've been fooled on a few occasions with ABS sensors and it was wheel bearings.
The other thing is the reluctor wheel. Odd as it may sound, dirt can trigger erroneous signals and even odder, some dirt can actually resonate a magnetic field. Greasy dirt is the worst.
A super long shot is the brakes. If you are using sintered pads, you can actually set up a very high frequency vibration as they "bounce". The 'bounce" actually straightens the molecules in the pad making them magnetic.
You have a good one. It will be interesting to see what you come up with.

Garthhh · Joined: 08 Mar 2014 Posts: 11 Location: Mariposa Ca

Grant93 this may help
http://www.largiader.com/abs/absfault.html

grant93 · Posted: Mon Mar 17, 2014 5:52 pm Post subject:

Gidday Fellas,

Many thanks for the links and additional info, very helpful and something to work with.

So over the last weekend I went for a quick 1000km run up thru the Australian high country and I hooked the ABS11 back up again with the blue reply under the tank installed and the main connector to the brain installed nice and tight and yes once again the I had alternating flashing red ABS lights on the dash appear every 4 minutes, this I put up with because I had also read that sometimes if you leave it do this for a longer period of time it can self correct.... HHmmm, no such luck Sad

shit

I will keep plugging away at finding the problem, but the brakes on this bike without the ABS working are fantastic anyway, and since I have not ridden a bike with ABS before I am none the wiser, but I am a sucker for fixing something and keeping it original and would just like have it sorted..

The new battery sounds like an option, and I will get the bike out soon and try the bump start test..

Talk to you soon and thank you
_________________
Cheers Grant

1994 K1100RS
1981 R100RS
1978 R100RS
1928 Chevrolet tourer

www.montythe1928chevrolet.blogspot.com.au

sonicbut · Joined: 16 Jul 2010 Posts: 1 Location: Ellesmere Shropshire

On the subject of the ABS flashing lights problem, starting the engine on an old Battery drops the Battery voltage to low for the ABS to function properly, when the Bike is ridden for a few miles the Battery voltage recovers sufficiently for the system to right itself , pressing the ABS switch when at a road junction or running slow will cancel the alternating lights, only cure is a new Battery, assuming the Alternator is ok, hope this helps..