K11 Owners Group

HoosierStu · Posted: Sun Jul 06, 2008 8:08 am Post subject: Oil leak question - Help!

I have always had a very slight oil leak above my oil glass where the crank case meets the engine block. This leak is now starting to get worse. This of course right before a 1500 mile trip.

Question:
Does this seal fail quickly? (probably cannot answer such a question)

Is this super expensive and time consuming to get fixed at a good dealer? Or can they fix this pretty easily.

Thanks!
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"Still can't find 6th gear" 94 K1100LT

Sonu · Posted: Sun Jul 06, 2008 9:53 am Post subject:

Stu,

This might help (particularly the second link)

http://www.ibmwr.org/ktech/sight-glass1.shtml
http://www.ibmwr.org/ktech/sight-glass2.shtml

Does a leaking seal last long? Who knows. I've lived with a leaky seal for months but I'd want to take care of it if I was heading out for a long trip.

Good luck

Sanjiv
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1997 K1100LT "Ziggy" _GarminGPS_Corbin saddle_K Guards _Hyperlights_Fog lights_Eastern Beaver Relays_Cee Bailey_4"speakers_Michelin PR4's_MoS2_Spiegler lines_TPMS_VDO

HoosierStu · Posted: Sun Jul 06, 2008 10:24 am Post subject:

Sorry if I was not clear. It's not the site glass, it is the seam above it that links the crank case to the engine block. This whole area between the black and silver seems to leak. It used to leak just be above the oil glass but now the leak appears to extends back to where the arrow is.
Is having the dealer replace this gasket a lengthy and expensive ordeal?

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"Still can't find 6th gear" 94 K1100LT

Phil Marvin · Posted: Sun Jul 06, 2008 11:52 am Post subject:

Hi, Stu,
Looking at the parts fiche, it looks like it is pretty straightforward. Remove the right crash bar and right lower fairing piece. Unbolt and remove the crankshaft cover. Clean, clean, clean the mating surfaces. Replace the cover with a new gasket. Tighten to spec. Replace the lower fairing piece and the crash bar. Ride. NOTE: It may be more complicated than that, but that's al I would expect. Are you SURE it's leaking at the gasket and not running down after leaking at, say, the breather hose? Just make sure you're repairing what is actually causing the leak!
Ride Safe,
_________________
Ride Safe,
Phil Marvin in El Paso, TX
'94 K75A/3
'95 K75RTP

HoosierStu · Posted: Sun Jul 06, 2008 3:32 pm Post subject:

Good point Phil,

Unlike most on this site, I don't do most repairs (only oil and easy stuff).

I'll try to make an appointment at Grand Rapids for this week. Hopefuly they can get me in and fix whatever is wrong in one day. It's 100 miles from my house.
I love going up there for repairs. They give you a loaner bike to take to lunch and don't think twice about letting you take out any bike on the floor for a ride. Laughing

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"Still can't find 6th gear" 94 K1100LT

HoosierStu · Posted: Sun Jul 06, 2008 6:14 pm Post subject:

Phil,

Where is the breather hose? Sounds like something I should check out. Do I need to remove the side faring to check it?

Another question... As I looked through my Cymers book, I noticed an unlelated not on page 130, it reads:

"If there is a distinct noise coming from somewhere between the crankshaft and the output shaft gears there could be a problem with the springs in the output shaft. The noise may vary between a whine, to a knock or rattle. These noises vary with engine speed but the noise usually occures at low engine rpm. If you are experiencing this noise problem, take the bike to a BMW dealler and have them check it out. This problem was defined in BMW service info bulletin October 1988."

1988??? This is old, right?? and should not apply to my 1994?

My eye sure caught this since whine and knocks are normally how my engine sounds at idle.
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"Still can't find 6th gear" 94 K1100LT

Phil Marvin · Posted: Sun Jul 06, 2008 7:03 pm Post subject:

Hi, Stu,
I haven't had any K-bike which doesn't whine and clunk to some extent. I ride them and don't worry about it. As far as the breather hose, I believe it is on the left side of the engine somewhere around the airbox. I had mine replaced (notice - "had mine replaced", not "replaced mine") a number of years ago on the K1100LT. I routinely replace them on the K75 bikes, but no longer having a K1100 of any manner, I can't go into the garage and check something. The parts fiche shows the breather hose (part number 11 15 1 461 835) far back on the left side (on top) of the engine, quite near the bell housing. For some reason I believe it is much more difficult to get to on the K1100 than the K75 and that's why the "had mine replaced" a number of years ago. I wish I could be of more help.
Ride Safe,
_________________
Ride Safe,
Phil Marvin in El Paso, TX
'94 K75A/3
'95 K75RTP

HoosierStu · Posted: Sun Jul 06, 2008 7:12 pm Post subject:

My "leak" is on the right side (when sitting on the bike).
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"Still can't find 6th gear" 94 K1100LT

Rider · Posted: Sun Jul 06, 2008 8:45 pm Post subject: Oil Leak

Stu,

You might try removing the engine protection bar and the fairing lower to get to the fasteners holding the bottom of the engine on and tightening them to specified torque. The Clymer book says 5.5 to 6.5 ft. pounds which isn't much, but the system relies on a good gasket, some sealant and proper torque to keep the engine oil where it belongs.

Good luck.

Hey, is that the same K1100 that you rescued after some kid had cut the fairing all up?

Ed
_________________
2007 650 Burgman, 2003 400 Burgman

Some days you get the bear, some days the bear gets you.

gpzoduibh · Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2008 4:21 am Post subject:

Hi Stu
from your photo its hard to figure where youre leak is but if its between the crank cover and the block its an easy fix its a similar silicone type gasket to the valve/camshaft cover if you get one itll take you ten minutes to fix once you have the fairing parts off , just be sure not to overtighten the allen headed retaining screws as per the valve cover they seat on a shoulder and over tightening will easily strip the alloy threads they screw into
Regards
Bill Black
_________________
1995 Grinnall Scorpion III(1990 K100 16v motor)
2010 KTM 450 EXC
Moto Guzzi V50 powered hovercraft !
1989 K100RS (8V) special edition
1974 Yamaha DT360
1972 Sanglas 400 T
1980 Yamaha XS110-Watsonian Palma sidecar
1966 Bridgestone 175 dualtwin
1980 BMW R100RS
1979 Bultaco sherpa T 350
1979 Yamaha DT175MX
1990 Honda XR250R

HoosierStu · Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2008 8:17 am Post subject:

Ed,

Yes, this is the same bike. I found a used fairing, got it painted, etc.

This reminds me that this bike sat for about 5-6 years in a garage without use. Clearly, this is hard on the gaskets and am afraid that is what's failing.
I looked over my clymers book and the Parts Fiche and decided that it must be the Crank case gasket or the oil pan gasket.

I will pull the side fairing and report back what I find. I thought that my sight glass was leaking but the now it's clear that the leak it coming from above it.
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"Still can't find 6th gear" 94 K1100LT

HoosierStu · Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2008 10:22 am Post subject:

Here are more photos to help you see what's going on. This first one is perhaps the best. What is the torque specs. on that bold with the arrow? I cannot find it in my reference material.
It appears that is where the leak is coming from?

Here is a close up

Here is the bolt above the oil glass. Would this have the same torque specs as the one shown in the first picture?

Here is another shot behind the glass

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"Still can't find 6th gear" 94 K1100LT

Rider · Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2008 3:44 pm Post subject: Oil Leak

Stu,

That leak is not from around the crankcase cover. It looks like it's coming from where the bottom part of the engine case joins the upper part. But with oil leaks it's hard to tell; hot oil goes all over the place. It might be smart to pull the faring lower off and take a good close look. Maybe even get the torque spec for a similar fastener and snug those fasteners up. Also, clean the engine with some Gunk and then run it till it's hot and see if the oil shows up.

Good luck.

Ed
_________________
2007 650 Burgman, 2003 400 Burgman

Some days you get the bear, some days the bear gets you.

Tim (Midland Section) · Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2008 5:12 pm Post subject: Re: Oil Leak

HoosierStu · Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2008 5:22 pm Post subject:

That sounds like a good plan. I will get it cleaned up soon. I guess I'll run it with the fairing and crash bar to see what's happening. It's possible that it is happening so, so slowly that I won't be able to tell much unless I take it for a really long ride Laughing

"Honest, honey, the guys said I need to ride it REALLY far".

I assume that you guys will help me through this repair. I need to have it fixed by Sunday! Assuming that I (we) can figure out where the oil is coming from, I'll need to get a gasket here fast. Can the parts fiche overnight or two day mail gaskets? I'll worry about that once I've check it out.

Thanks again and I'll keep you updated!!
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"Still can't find 6th gear" 94 K1100LT

HoosierStu · Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2008 6:05 pm Post subject:

I got ten big bolts on the cylindar head cover. Can someone please give me torque specs. Please, please!

All I can find is 9nm (which seems tiny for those large bolts). Right side of bike.

Thanks!
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"Still can't find 6th gear" 94 K1100LT

Mystic Red · Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2008 6:44 pm Post subject:

That's what I got too, Stu, unless you're talking about the cylinder head bolts which have a final torque of 36 foot pounds. Covers are generally not very thick/strong and if you torque too much you'll create a bigger leak than you started with kinda like your automatic tranny cover and your oil pan in your car.
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Scott Hespelt, '94 K11LT
K11 OG #466

HoosierStu · Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2008 6:54 pm Post subject:

Thanks, Scott.

I'll stick with the 9nm unless someone chimes in otherwise.

I removed the lower panel and cleaned it up really well.

I then ran it in the drive for about 10 minutes. this proved not to be long enough to see anything. I'll have to take it out for a long ride tomorrow sometime.

Riding it around town with the lower fairing off is going to make me feel like I'm riding with no pants on!
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"Still can't find 6th gear" 94 K1100LT

Phil Marvin · Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2008 11:28 pm Post subject:

Hi, Stu,
If I read your message correctly, you have your valve cover off. You are asking for torque values for the bolts and have come up with 9Nm. That is the figure my genuine BMW manual says, for both valve cover and crankshaft cover bolts.

The bolts are shouldered and screw into the camshaft bearing blocks. If you overtorque the shouldered bolts and happen to strip the threads in the blocks, the blocks are not replaceable because they are line bored. If you cannot Helicoil the holes, it is new head time. So the bolts holding the covers on should be snug, but not T I G H T. I don't use a torque wrench when I do mine; I get them snug and leave them alone. Two grunts and a fart is NOT the correct torque in this instance! Smile

Ride Safe,
_________________
Ride Safe,
Phil Marvin in El Paso, TX
'94 K75A/3
'95 K75RTP

HoosierStu · Posted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 7:12 am Post subject:

If I wasn't using a torque wrench, I know I would get those shoulder bolts over tightened. They are so big but only require a little bit of twist.
Actually, Clymers could have gotten me into trouble here. Their books suggest that you can safely figure what torque should be used on a specific bolt by measuring the bolt's width in mm.

I didn't measure these shoulder bolts but can tell you that their table would have suggested WAY too much torque.

If the weather holds, I'll give it a 130 mile ride today. I guess I'll replace the lower fairing first so I don't look like a dork!
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"Still can't find 6th gear" 94 K1100LT