K11 Owners Group

Saltcreek · Posted: Mon Dec 29, 2008 7:12 pm Post subject: motorcycle fatalities

Was driving in my truck and caught the end of an NPR story on the increase in motorcycle fatalities. Apparently this is largely attributed to the number of baby boomers returning to biking after decades of not riding. I certainly fall in to that group. I think I'll look for a course to take in the spring. Interesting reading here:
http://www.democratandchronicle.com/article/20081222/NEWS01/812220334/1003
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Jim

1994 K1100LT Mystic Red, bfd, 37000 miles, sold Sad

2009 Wilderness Systems Zephyr 155 ST
2002 Litespeed titanium

Jim · Posted: Mon Dec 29, 2008 8:18 pm Post subject:

NO ONE should get on a bike until they've taken at least the basic MSF course.
_________________
Jim
1997 K1100LTSE 94,000 - still has gremlins!
1995 R100RT Classic 16,650 crashed - repaired!
1992 K75RTP 46,000

"We shall not all die, but we shall all be changed."

Flying Duck · Posted: Mon Dec 29, 2008 10:06 pm Post subject:

I survived without MSF. 100% self-taught. Didn't even know anyone who rode to give me pointers. I did have the advantage of having ridden a scoot for two years in college though.

I don't know if they had MSF in 1986 when I got my first real motorcycle, a 79 KZ750. I assume if they did have it that I was just too cheap/lazy to take it.

It wasn't until I got my K75RT in 2001 that I even bothered about form and stuff. With the Internet I started working on technique and looking for on-line pointers. Up until then I was probably a mediocre rider but did manage to survive and have fun.

Being older and wiser now(and mortal), I'd definitely take MSF if taking up riding.

I wanted to take the ERC but you can't do that in my neck of the woods with an aftermarket exhaust - no matter how loud it isn't. If I can't sell the K100RS for what I want for it then I might use that to take the ERC in the spring.
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93 LT (x2)
94 RS
86-97 K75F(K75/100/1100 Frankenbrick)
86 K75C w/paralever, hi perf cams,TURBO!
91 & 92 K75Ss
91 K1
86 custom K100
14 WR250R
IBA #17739 (SS1K, BBG, 50CC)
Buy parts HERE

Beachcomber · Posted: Tue Dec 30, 2008 7:24 am Post subject:

Hey Jim,

that's a bit of a sweeping statement [ re: MSF course ] ??

I started riding [trails, paths, woodlands ] when I was 14. Laughing

When I passed my road driving test aged 16 [ 1960 ], there was no machine capacity restriction and no speed limits.

I passed on the day of my 16th. birthday on my 650 Triumph T'Bird. Cool

I imagine that the MSF is an American version of the various UK proficiency tests [ don't know what they are either].

ANY proficiency test will tell the World how good you were on that particular day when you took your test - you then spend the rest of your riding days learning and surviving.

Of more interest would be the percentage of accidents / fatalities per head of riders.

It's a bit like saying Women are safer drivers because there are fewer accidents, etc. Well - newsflash, there's a damn site LESS of them driving to begin with.

Any fatality is one too many, and we will never eliminate the car / truck driver who "didn't see you".

Testing proficiency is of course essential, but to say that nobody should swing a leg over WITHOUT it ??? IMHO there is NO substitute for experience. Wink

TJ
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Beachcomber '93 K1100RS / '93 K1100LT and several K100's

Saltcreek · Posted: Tue Dec 30, 2008 8:26 am Post subject:

All I'm saying is that the statistics show that I'm in a high risk group. Probably much lower risk than average within that group because I have an excellent driving record on a wide range of vehicles from an MG midget through a full sized schoolbus. I'll bet a lot of you share my view that motorcycling makes me a better all round driver. Head on a swivel in traffic, always evaluating possible threats.
_________________
Jim

1994 K1100LT Mystic Red, bfd, 37000 miles, sold Sad

2009 Wilderness Systems Zephyr 155 ST
2002 Litespeed titanium

RAL88 · Posted: Tue Dec 30, 2008 9:30 am Post subject:

I had been riding for 24 years and then stopped riding for 11 years when my son was born. When I started up again I took the Colorado MOST course. One reason was that the last bike I rode was a Honda 750 and my K11 was much larger and was very different in its riding characteristics. Also I wanted to use their smaller bikes so I could get the feel of muscling a bike around. It was like riding a bicycle once I got on and I had forgotten how much fun I had on a bike. The course definitely helped get back to the basics and as Drake said "Being older and wiser now(and mortal), I'd definitely take MSF if taking up riding." I figured taking the course could only help.

Rich
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Rich

"If it ain't broke, take it apart and make it work better"
*************
'96' K1100LT-SE
'97' R850GS-R

owrstrich · Posted: Tue Dec 30, 2008 10:59 am Post subject:

i have been on several group rides recently with these very folks...

some are on sporty kinds of motos... some are on cruiser kinds of motos...

i have been riding sweep cause i just wanted to watch these folks ride their road kings and ultra classics and stars and boulevards...

i asked each of them over the past few months if they knew of david hough or proficient motorcycling... some of the sporty bike folks knew of david hough and proficient motorcycling... these folks were also in all the gear including full face helmets and appeared to have their heads in the ride...

the lumbering cruiser crowd... non of them had heard of david hough or proficient motorcycling... these folks were in life style gear... fingerless gloves... half helmets... t shirts and leather vests...

we got to about 6000 feet in october... it was in the 50s... none of the lumbering cruiser folks knew there was heated gear... only a few knew there was heated grips...

anyway... these lumbering cruiser folks were center line to fog line... just wandering all over their lanes... many times over the center line and fog line... and these folks want to ride side by side because its cool...

they had no awareness to their surroundings... no awareness to hazards... no clue as setting up a corner or apexing a corner... no motophysics knowledge and limited motocontrol skills...

in conclusion... these 40 year old to 60 year old riders are f ing scary... we intend to continue participating in group rides... but we are going to be a little more selective as to the other riders...

j o
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yeeeeeehaaaaaaa...

Flying Duck · Posted: Tue Dec 30, 2008 11:27 am Post subject:

jpberens1994K1100RS · Posted: Tue Dec 30, 2008 11:54 am Post subject: MC & the risks

All good stuff here! Forget about what OTHER people classify you as.
Know your skills, know your limitations, ride within, improve when possible, and yes, it is always possible to get better. I flat out refuse to accept it's not.
Started riding in 77, dual purpose bikes, then street bikes. Learned the hard way, did some stupid chit Embarassed

but survived & got smarter. Always working to apply what I have learned.

Stay away from them cruiser types, you know why now.
I have known a lot of riders over the years, friends come & go, life moves on.
Whan I was a LOT younger, everybody thought it was so very very dangerous to be a MC rider. My mom & dad did not say much either positive or negative. My wife of 19 years just smiles & wishes me well, she understands passion. My doctor thinks I'm a wee bit nuts, but smiles now becuse I have explained it to him.
Life has inherrent risks. Not doing something you love can become one such risk to your psychological well being. Holding that thought, and him being a doctor, I then told him the cold hard truth. Been riding for thirty years. Have known a lot of riders, and at this stage of my life, I've lost many more people I've known to cancer than I ever have to MC fatalities.
This was when I was having him check me out the morning after that BEAUTIFUL 1994 K1100RS I had bought in April of this year was run over by the inattentive driver of a Honda motor car. Oh yeah, I was on it, the gear saved me, I should have had an out, happened real quick in a line of traffic at a light.
Bought another one, just had to, still loving it, still living it.
_________________
1993 K1100RS that I'd rather be riding FAST!
2014 Moto Guzzi Norge

Klinker · Posted: Tue Dec 30, 2008 2:16 pm Post subject:

Got my license and first bike in 1989. Took the ERC in 2003 - I recommend it to anyone who hasn't taken it. I've been thinking about taking it again or some other safety/skills training. The more I hear and read, the more I realize I don't know.

There may be no substitute for experience, but any training you get will increase the value of that experience.
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tlp
1994 K1100RS

Only the Reasonists. They believe in an evidence-based world, something called Rationalism. But it's a tiny group, not so influential.
- Page Griffin

jpberens1994K1100RS · Posted: Tue Dec 30, 2008 2:23 pm Post subject: training

+1

Well put!
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1993 K1100RS that I'd rather be riding FAST!
2014 Moto Guzzi Norge

BobZ(IL) · Posted: Tue Dec 30, 2008 11:00 pm Post subject:

I received a copy of Hough's Proficient M/Cing from Santa Claus mainly because I originally read a borrowed copy. Plans are to reread it every couple of years as a refresher course.

And remember guys, ATGATT. (I.m still learning this one)
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'93 K1100LT
'78 R100S
'05 R1200GS
BMWMOA, CRBMWOA, ABC, K11OG #997

Live well, do good work, enjoy the ride.

rydor · Posted: Wed Dec 31, 2008 11:12 am Post subject:

David Hough gifted me a signed copy of his book at the 2007 MOA rally during his seminar Very Happy

On July 2, I'm attending this... http://www.classrides.com/

owrstrich · Posted: Wed Dec 31, 2008 11:26 am Post subject:

rodger that rydor...

whos going with you...

j o
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yeeeeeehaaaaaaa...

Das Boot · Posted: Wed Dec 31, 2008 11:43 am Post subject:

hirschhs · Posted: Wed Dec 31, 2008 12:10 pm Post subject:

1st bike 1972, a BSA Rocket, no licence, no idea, no sense, no accident but more by luck than judgement. Off to live in Italy: Duc 750, no lids needed, drove it over the alps in winter to go to a festival in switzerland, so cold the carb froze several times. No accident until a blind woman hit me near Assisi. Now, a lot older, a lot slower but still passionate, I take every test and course available - IMHO, it's just a question of heightened awareness. No test or course can MAKE you ride better but they can increase your ability to see danger coming and perhaps avoid it. Ride safe all.
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Cheers, Steve H _______________________________________
K-less in Bucks
2001 ST1100A

1994 Yamaha 600 Diversion 'Hers'
2006 Kawasaki Z750s 'Hers'

Beachcomber · Posted: Wed Dec 31, 2008 12:18 pm Post subject:

To be honest I have NO idea how complex the current tests are in the UK, but I think they ARE quite comprehensive in their scope.

BTW - I'm in NO way suggesting that proficiency tests are a BAD thing, in fact I think they're imperative - just that us old folk that have never had to take such a test should now consider taking one?

When I look at the "learners" on our UK roads [ chaparoned by qualified riders ], and then I look at the qualified riders - who are maybe 25 - 35 years old???? Jeez, I've been RIDING for twice as long as some of them have been on this Earth! Not sure what they're going to be able to teach me that experience hasn't already?

There is an advanced Motorist [ automobile ] test in the UK, which is purely voluntary, and several schemes organised by the Police - I'm not sure if there is an equivalent for riders [ help?].

What would be FAR more use if CAR drivers were compelled to put in say 6 months RIDING as part of their Auto test. No excuses - "I didn't see him officer".

BTW - a Happy and Prosperous and SAFE New Year to one and all.

TJ
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Beachcomber '93 K1100RS / '93 K1100LT and several K100's

hirschhs · Posted: Wed Dec 31, 2008 12:51 pm Post subject:

Beachcomber, have a look for the Ridesafe scheme online. I don't know where you are but local forces run these and they are fantastic.
I tend to disagree (with respect) about youth / experience. I've learned plenty from people much younger then me.. it's not just the accumulation of experience which ensures knowledge - it can be one single experience which I've never had and as long as it's passed on with and to an open mind, it's worth having! Smile

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Cheers, Steve H _______________________________________
K-less in Bucks
2001 ST1100A

1994 Yamaha 600 Diversion 'Hers'
2006 Kawasaki Z750s 'Hers'

Beachcomber · Posted: Wed Dec 31, 2008 3:00 pm Post subject:

Always keep an open mind - but where do these "teachers" get their information / knowledge from - OLDER riders? Wink

Never too old to learn, and I'm by no means the perfect rider, but I'm happy enough to think I can keep myself alive by my own hand! Regrettably most riding these days [ for me anyway ] has to be defensive with a view to self preservation. Cool

Unfortunately [?] I think I'm a little long in the tooth to be scratching round the lanes with my looney young riding buddies - so I'm pretty happy with my current proficiency, given my 8/10ths riding style / skills.

One thing still amazes me - there is a progression with bike learning / riding [ sensible ], but you can pass your car driving test, and assuming you can pay the insurance [or not as the case may be ] you can whizz off in a Testarossa or 911.

As stated my learner / first road bike was a 650 T'Bird - but of course there wasn't the vast speed differnce in those days. I guess a T'bird could be blown off by ANY Jap 125 these days.

Whatever your point of view - all have a safe riding 2009

TJ
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Beachcomber '93 K1100RS / '93 K1100LT and several K100's

Tim (Midland Section) · Posted: Wed Dec 31, 2008 8:39 pm Post subject: