K11 Owners Group

joeangi · Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2009 8:50 am Post subject: Introduction and brake help

Hi guys, I am new to this forum. I wanted to introduce myself and ask for some help. You can probably figure out my name....I try to stay away from made up names....

I own a 1986 K100RS that I have owned since new. I have no local dealer and wrench everything for myself. I have done all the usual stuff and consider myself fairly competent. ( I know which end of the screwdriver to use!)

Last week I made the jump and bought a 1994 K1100RS that needed some love. Well, as the story always goes it needs more love than originally thought!

I got no brakes! I noticed that the front master cylinder has no fluid in it, but the rear is at minimum. I just hooked up the battery, and of course I have an ABS fault. My question is where should I start. Should I bleed at the calipers first, or at the ABS pump? I have no previous experience with ABS, so any advice would be appreciated.

I will try to get some pics later.....we won't get into the wiring nightmare till the mechanicals work. But, lets just say that the wiring was done by a local butcher!!!

Thanks for the help.
Joe

Flying Duck · Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2009 11:03 am Post subject:

Bleed at the modulators, then calipers.
_________________
93 LT (x2)
94 RS
86-97 K75F(K75/100/1100 Frankenbrick)
86 K75C w/paralever, hi perf cams,TURBO!
91 & 92 K75Ss
91 K1
86 custom K100
14 WR250R
IBA #17739 (SS1K, BBG, 50CC)
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joeangi · Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2009 11:08 am Post subject:

Thanks, I will try that tonight.

K11Martin · Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2009 11:49 am Post subject:

Believe it or not, an ABS fault is not directly connected to the fact that your brakes need bleeding, and may possibly be much easier to diagnose and repair than you might think!!!

Once you have got the brakes working, you will almost certainly still have your ABS fault, and you will need to check back here for help with that.

Your brakes will function perfectly without a working ABS system, so don't feel that you have to sort both things at the same time if you don't want to. In fact, I'd suggest doing only one thing at a time.
_________________

Currently riding a '93 K1100LT (ABS1) decked out with lights and aerials (Ex 70's Vespa rider)

Why not join the UK owners club at http://forum.bmw-club.org.uk/

joeangi · Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2009 11:54 am Post subject:

It would be nice if it was just something minor, that needed to be reset or something. Lets see if we can just get some brakes tonight, and take it fom there....

Jim · Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2009 12:02 pm Post subject:

Hi Joe - welcome to K11. The ABS lights will flash until the bike is ridden far enough for the ABS to self test - not very far. If the ABS lights are still flashing after you ride off, that usually indicates a weak or low battery.
_________________
Jim
1997 K1100LTSE 94,000 - still has gremlins!
1995 R100RT Classic 16,650 crashed - repaired!
1992 K75RTP 46,000

"We shall not all die, but we shall all be changed."

joeangi · Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2009 12:21 pm Post subject:

The lights are flashing alternately....which I believe is "fault"

Phil Marvin · Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2009 11:52 pm Post subject:

Hi, Joe,
As a previous post said, the fault "may" be low battery voltage. The battery needs to be well charged to not fault. When mine did (when I had a K1100LT), I would ride it for half a mile or so, then stop, turn off the ignition and restart it. It usually cleared the fault by doing this.
Ride Safe,
_________________
Ride Safe,
Phil Marvin in El Paso, TX
'94 K75A/3
'95 K75RTP

Jim · Posted: Wed Jan 28, 2009 12:46 am Post subject:

Joe - I should have explained that a little better. The ABS check needs a lot of volts to run the self test on start up. The ABS check occurs right after the starter has turned the engine over. If your battery is marginal, starting the bike sucks a lot of energy out of the battery - not leaving enough to make the ABS happy. If the ABS doesn't have enough power to perform the self test, you get flashing fault lights. I had an R1200C the dealer put three batteries in in a very short period of time trying to cure the issue.
_________________
Jim
1997 K1100LTSE 94,000 - still has gremlins!
1995 R100RT Classic 16,650 crashed - repaired!
1992 K75RTP 46,000

"We shall not all die, but we shall all be changed."

joeangi · Posted: Wed Jan 28, 2009 8:36 am Post subject:

battery voltage is not the issue. I have a brand new "jumper box" attached as the westco battery is shot. I think it has to do with the no brake fluid, and unable to bleed the brakes. I'll get it yet. Thanks for the advice.

bmwmick · Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2009 8:40 am Post subject:

Hi Joe,
Welcome aboard!
Your hydraulic system is NOT related to your ABS fault. As you were told above, there is no connection between the electronics of the ABS-II and the pressures in your system.
There is lots of information here: http://k11og.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2110
Including a way to prevent your system from getting low voltage faults on engine start. Read the last paragraph.
First you need to get your brakes working. The ABS can be fixed later.
If you have no fluid leaks right now. try removing the front calipers and push all pads back into the calipers as far as you can. Sometimes, this will push enough fluid back towards the master cylinder to get a firm brake lever.
Once you have some pressure at the lever, bleed the entire system to get rid of the old fluid.

Mick
_________________
Mick McKinnon
KOG#175
'93 K1100LT, '96 R1100RT, '84 R100RS, 2010 Kawasaki C-14
Tucson, AZ

joeangi · Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2009 6:14 pm Post subject:

Mick,
Thanks for the tip, thats what worked on the rear brake! Fronts I got working, but the lever feels spongy still.Not rock hard like my K100. I am not sure if, because of the ABS or the 4 pot calipers if there is just so much braking force that I do not need all that travel, but I can almost get the lever to the grip? This could be normal, but I do not think so.

BMGraeme · Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2009 6:35 pm Post subject:

I think alternating lights do indicate a fault not the battery voltage problem. When I had a battery problem both lights were flashing together as described above, but when alternate flashing I had an ABS fault condition. In my case it was just a reset of the ABS brain required. This is easy enough to do (see previous link) but make sure i) you have a good earth and ii)the ABS switch on the dash is actually functioning. It's common for these to have broken wiring as they get stressed when the dash is taken off and put back on again.

Enjoy the ride when you get it working. '94's are best and the fastest one is in red.
_________________
1980 CB900FA
1994 K1100RS
2008 R1200GSA