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Fuel Pump Relay???
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Stoked Steve
Flying Brick Rider


Joined: 01 Sep 2004
Posts: 1402
Location: Virginia Beach, VA

PostPosted: Thu Apr 01, 2010 6:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I haven't pulled the pump yet, been shopping for an inexpensive replacement. My gut feeling is that the pump is fine and the relay is the issue. When the pump is working, like now, it sounds fine and healthy.

I should pull it and give it 12V many times and see if I can get it to not come on.

I checked the 4-pin connector and it looks good, nice and clean and jiggling it around while the bike is running is not making any change.

So I'm really thinking it's just the relay, how would one bench test that? I'll certainly replace it, I'd just like to be sure that was the issue without being stuck on the side of the road again.
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Virginia Beach, VA
93 K1100RS Mystic Red SOLD
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Scott_Anderson
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Joined: 05 Sep 2006
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Location: Central Iowa, USA

PostPosted: Fri Apr 02, 2010 12:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

skdonlan wrote:
....I'd just like to be sure that was the issue.....


The only true way to figure it out is to have it fault when your are working on it.
Sorry Steve but that's just the way it works.
I fought for 3 weeks with a 400 ton chiller last year trying to find a tempermental problem before I finally found a faulty relay board.
I can be done, just be patient.
Check your connections real good, test the wires from the plug to the pump, swap your relay. You are on the right track, just don't get discouraged. Wink
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1995 K1100LT 0302044
1997 R1100RT ZC62149
2017 FLHTK Ultra Limited
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Stoked Steve
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Joined: 01 Sep 2004
Posts: 1402
Location: Virginia Beach, VA

PostPosted: Sat Apr 03, 2010 1:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ouch, I went to order this fuel pump from Duck's posting on EBay for $36.95

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Facet-2042-Fuel-Pump-86-95-Ford-Taurus-Mercury-Sable_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem45f187a5a2QQitemZ300404942242QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories#shId

Only to find out AFTER I agreed to buy it that there is a shippping and handling charge of $101.00!!!!

That is outrageous!!

I haven't paid for it and sent the seller an email asking to cancel the order, but I've got a feeling they won't allow it and I've got to decide if it's worth a ding on my 100% feedback rating.

This really pisses me off. It was my fault for not calculating the shipping, but I expected something like $10-$15. But they made the shipping some what obscure to find, it certainly wasn't obvious.

We'll see what they say, what a bitch...

[EDIT]

OK, I got a real quick robo reply saying they were having problems with their shipping calculator and that figure was not correct. That they should have it sorted out by Sunday and will let me know the correct amount.

Phew! I checked out all their other ads and they mostly had reasonable shipping of $9.95 or so and they have a 99.5% positive feedback with thousands of items sold, so I stated thinking it must be a glitch.
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joeangi
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Joined: 03 Apr 2006
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Location: Westchester, New York

PostPosted: Sat Apr 03, 2010 2:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have (had) been chasing this same problem. I had changed out the pump, as it was bad when I got the bike. Only to get stuck (just like you). I reached into the wiring under the seat, and it fired back up. I took everyone advice and ordered a new fuel tank plug from Eastern Beaver. Only to get stuck again....This time it was like 100 degrees, and I was sweating like a pig (my K100 NEVER did this to me, in 24 years!) I was still messing with the wires under the seat (as that had worked before) and it still would not fire up....finally the pump came back on, and away I went. Got it into the garage and knowing that it was now NOT the fuel tank connector, fiddled around until I got the fuel pump to not come on...it turned out to be the main plug that snaps into the motronic unit. It was (is) snapped in properly, and it all looks fine, but one of the pins must be loose/ corroded i figured. I took some scotchbrite (very fine) and polished all the pins of the motronic. I also looked at the female side under a magnifier...they looked OK. I put a small smear of diaelctric grease on the male side and snapped it back together. I have ridden 3 times so far this year, nothing more than 10-20 miles at a clip, but no stalling yet. I think I got it. Check your main motronic plug...it may be the culprit.

Joe
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Stoked Steve
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 03, 2010 3:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I didn't know EB made a fuel tank plug. I'll have to check that out, I love his stuff. I have the headlght relay set up and the driving lights set up for my Catz as well.

I'll have a good look at the main Mototronic connector, but it's always been clean and I've sprayed it lightly with some silicon lube to keep it clean and proper.

I'm really thinking it's the fuel pump relay, but who knows...
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Scott_Anderson
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Joined: 05 Sep 2006
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Location: Central Iowa, USA

PostPosted: Sat Apr 03, 2010 8:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Steve, I was going to say that I also ordered one of those pumps and the shipping was only like $9.50

I can't recall what EB is selling for a tank connector, but I seem to remember Duck or Jim mentioning using a male/female flat 4-wire trailer connector for the fuel tank setup. It's even going to be weather proof.
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1995 K1100LT 0302044
1997 R1100RT ZC62149
2017 FLHTK Ultra Limited
Garmin StreetPilot 2820
Garmin Zumo 550
Garmin Zumo XT
"One who does not ask questions is ashamed to learn" Danish proverb
1997 K1100LT 0302488(R.I.P.)
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joeangi
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Joined: 03 Apr 2006
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Location: Westchester, New York

PostPosted: Mon Apr 05, 2010 12:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is what I used for the pump

http://www.easternbeaver.com/Main/Elec__Products/Connectors/250_Connectors/4p250c.jpg
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Stoked Steve
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 05, 2010 3:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Joeangi, I didn't see anything on there specifically listed as such, but figured the four plug would work.

Oh, the fuel pump vendor on Ebay got back to me with $9.38 for shipping, much better than $101!

I think what I'll do is replace the relay and get the new fuel pump ready for installation, put the spade wire connectors on and such and then just store it on the bike in case the original one fails. I've pulled it out on the side of the road before and it's not a big deal to do other than soaking your hands in gasoline.
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Steve
Virginia Beach, VA
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12 Suzuki DL650A VStrom
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joeangi
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Joined: 03 Apr 2006
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Location: Westchester, New York

PostPosted: Mon Apr 05, 2010 5:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

They are pretty easy to change out. Throw a couple nitrile gloves in your tail section, if you have to change it out on the roadside. The gas will eat through latex gloves....please don't do it barehanded, gas is nasty and easily absorbed.

I too would have been really pissed if I got nailed with $110 in shipping, for a 3 lb. part

Joe
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Stoked Steve
Flying Brick Rider


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 15, 2010 7:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AARRGGHHH! The bike left me stuck on the side of the road, AGAIN!

During my last garage session this past weekend I repalced the fuel pump relay and had a spare fuel pump prepped for swap stored on the bike. I went ahead and switched out the pump with the new one (on the side of the road) and still nothing. I had done the side stand switch bypass last time and it didn't change anything, but I did not try it this time.

All the lights come on fine, engine turns over fine, there's just no fuel pump "whirr" when I turn the key to on.

This time the pump cut off while at cruising speed on a country road, luckily I was able to coast to a small side road and pull off safely. Last time I was a stop light on a busy boulevard. There doesn't seem to be any rhyme or reason as to when it happens. This first time it happened last fall, it just started working again and was fine for 6 months and about 2,000 miles before it did it again about two weeks ago at the begininning of this post.. This time it's only been a few weeks and maybe 75 miles, so it's getting more frequent.

The connections are all good, nice and clean. Now that I've ruled out the fuel pump or relay, I'm beggining to wonder about the motronic brain, is it just getting dodgy? When it works, it works fine, and then when it goes out, it goes completely and then later on works fine agian. It isn't a quick on and off issue, more like a woman in a bad mood, it lasts for awhile and then all is good again, unitl the next time...

When I go back to retrieve it from the driveway I had to leave it at, it will probably start right back up and be fine.

I'll have to more thoroughly go over the wiring to the tank when I get her back.

This is really gettting annoying, not to mention really shaking my faith in it's long distance abilities.
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Scott_Anderson
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 15, 2010 10:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Have you tried contact cleaner and dielectric grease on the motronic plug?
How's your wires where they enter the tank, not the connector but where they acutally go in. The part you removed when you had your tank work done.
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1995 K1100LT 0302044
1997 R1100RT ZC62149
2017 FLHTK Ultra Limited
Garmin StreetPilot 2820
Garmin Zumo 550
Garmin Zumo XT
"One who does not ask questions is ashamed to learn" Danish proverb
1997 K1100LT 0302488(R.I.P.)
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joeangi
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Joined: 03 Apr 2006
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Location: Westchester, New York

PostPosted: Fri Apr 16, 2010 9:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Steve,

You are going through the same problem (and solutions) that I did. I haven't put but 150 miles on mine so far this year, but it has not cut out yet. I feel your pain, as I found that "same" side road last summer to coast to a stop in. Yet, when it runs, it runs fine?? Try the motronic plug thing and let me know if it does the trick. I ran a nice ground from mine with a wire under one of the torks screws.

After working on my fuel pump sending unit, it could be a broken wire up to the fuel pump after the connector. It should be pretty easy to put an ohm-meter on each wire, back to the plug. A little tugging on the wire, you should be able to find a break.

Joe
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RI Parker
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Joined: 29 Dec 2009
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 16, 2010 12:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had something like this happen just last week. Turns out I had bumped the 'kill switch'.
If the kill switch is off the pump don't whurr, and the fuel gauge don't work, BUT the started will turn.
Luckly I could cancel the tow-truck, and wasn't late for anything!

So? Check for intermittant contact in the KILL SWITCH ??
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Stoked Steve
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 16, 2010 9:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the suggestions guys, I will check all of the above.

I got her home tonight (I need to get a Uhaul frequent renters card!) and still no pump action. I put an ohm-meter on the four pin connector (to the fuel tank) coming from the motronic and got 12v on both of the hot wires. So, I'm thinking it probably is an issue between that and the fuel pump, I'll drain the tank and investigate more thoroughly this weekend.

The one variable to that theory is that when I installed the spare fuel pump, I had to cut the ring leads off and crimped on new spade connectors for the new pump, when that pump didn't fire up, I pulled those connectors off and just wrapped the stripped wire around the threaded terminals of the original pump and tightened up the nuts, fully intending to replace the ring terminals later. I would think the connections are OK, but certainly not ideal.

I double checked the kill switch and clicked it back and forth several times. Fuel gauge is working fine.

So, tank draining, removal and thorough inspection of all wires and connectors is on the schedule.

Thanks again for your help.
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Scott_Anderson
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 16, 2010 10:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Steve, can you read an OHM reading from the tank side of the connector for the wires to the pump?

I measured mine(brn to grn) at 1.1ohm resistance.

Would be curious, have you got some alligator clips, with your meter reading voltage on the motoronic side of the connector, see what happens to the meter reading as you plug in the connector and put a load to the circuit.

You could have a weak connection that will give a voltage reading with no load but won't pass any current when you connect the load.
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1995 K1100LT 0302044
1997 R1100RT ZC62149
2017 FLHTK Ultra Limited
Garmin StreetPilot 2820
Garmin Zumo 550
Garmin Zumo XT
"One who does not ask questions is ashamed to learn" Danish proverb
1997 K1100LT 0302488(R.I.P.)
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Stoked Steve
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 17, 2010 8:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You're getting a bit out of my ohm-meter expierience. I can read power easy enough, but I don't know how to test a non-powered wire. I guess the ohm-meter sends power through the wire and then measures it?

Mine is a pretty low level ohm-meter and I don't know if and how to have it send juice, how does that work?

(edit) I think I just figured that out. I found the green ohm setting on the meter and touched the leads to a piece of wire and got a reading. Do'h! The things you don't know you don't know.

I'll check this out further when I get the tank off.
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Scott_Anderson
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 17, 2010 8:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

skdonlan wrote:
I think I just figured that out. I found the green ohm setting on the meter and touched the leads to a piece of wire and got a reading. Do'h! The things you don't know you don't know.

I'll check this out further when I get the tank off.


That's how what we learn sticks with us longer, when we learn by doing instead of just reading a book. Wink
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1995 K1100LT 0302044
1997 R1100RT ZC62149
2017 FLHTK Ultra Limited
Garmin StreetPilot 2820
Garmin Zumo 550
Garmin Zumo XT
"One who does not ask questions is ashamed to learn" Danish proverb
1997 K1100LT 0302488(R.I.P.)
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Stoked Steve
Flying Brick Rider


Joined: 01 Sep 2004
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 17, 2010 10:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK, here's what I've found. I pulled out the fuel sending unit that has the wires going to the sender and the pump. I am getting a reading (resistance?) from the pump wires to where they are soldered at the sender connection, both the ground and the yellow. But there is no reading from the yellow solder to the yellow pin in the plug. There is also no reading between the brown and green pins in the connector (tank side) as Scott asked about (although I'm not sure what that has to do with the yellow wire(?))

So, I am assuming there is a break somewhere in the yellow wire from the connector to the solder terminal at the sender unit, sound right?

So, then I'm suspecting the yellow wire in the connector itself or perhaps in the line somewhere, but would tend to suspect the connector first.

Next step, replace the connector?

I know Eastern Beaver sells one, but I'd have to wait for it to arrive from Japan, any ideas on where I could get one, or something similiar more local?

Thanks again for all the help, I'm getting there.
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SugarHillCTD
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 17, 2010 11:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

skdonlan wrote:
Thanks again for all the help, I'm getting there.


Still have EVERYTHING you need to fix ANYTHING on your bike- even the correct color body parts......AND you could ride it home Laughing Laughing Laughing


Seriously, Eastern Beaver parts are here very quickly- had my headlight relays within a few days. Great quality stuff too.
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Stoked Steve
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 17, 2010 11:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've already got one '93, I don't think I could handle another one!

Yeah EB's stuff is great and it does come in about 4-5 days, I'm just impatient and want to get this baby back on the road!

Check your PM's Sugarhill!
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