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Fuel Pump Relay???
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Stoked Steve
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Joined: 01 Sep 2004
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Location: Virginia Beach, VA

PostPosted: Sat Apr 17, 2010 8:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You're getting a bit out of my ohm-meter expierience. I can read power easy enough, but I don't know how to test a non-powered wire. I guess the ohm-meter sends power through the wire and then measures it?

Mine is a pretty low level ohm-meter and I don't know if and how to have it send juice, how does that work?

(edit) I think I just figured that out. I found the green ohm setting on the meter and touched the leads to a piece of wire and got a reading. Do'h! The things you don't know you don't know.

I'll check this out further when I get the tank off.
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Scott_Anderson
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 17, 2010 8:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

skdonlan wrote:
I think I just figured that out. I found the green ohm setting on the meter and touched the leads to a piece of wire and got a reading. Do'h! The things you don't know you don't know.

I'll check this out further when I get the tank off.


That's how what we learn sticks with us longer, when we learn by doing instead of just reading a book. Wink
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Stoked Steve
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 17, 2010 10:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK, here's what I've found. I pulled out the fuel sending unit that has the wires going to the sender and the pump. I am getting a reading (resistance?) from the pump wires to where they are soldered at the sender connection, both the ground and the yellow. But there is no reading from the yellow solder to the yellow pin in the plug. There is also no reading between the brown and green pins in the connector (tank side) as Scott asked about (although I'm not sure what that has to do with the yellow wire(?))

So, I am assuming there is a break somewhere in the yellow wire from the connector to the solder terminal at the sender unit, sound right?

So, then I'm suspecting the yellow wire in the connector itself or perhaps in the line somewhere, but would tend to suspect the connector first.

Next step, replace the connector?

I know Eastern Beaver sells one, but I'd have to wait for it to arrive from Japan, any ideas on where I could get one, or something similiar more local?

Thanks again for all the help, I'm getting there.
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SugarHillCTD
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 17, 2010 11:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

skdonlan wrote:
Thanks again for all the help, I'm getting there.


Still have EVERYTHING you need to fix ANYTHING on your bike- even the correct color body parts......AND you could ride it home Laughing Laughing Laughing


Seriously, Eastern Beaver parts are here very quickly- had my headlight relays within a few days. Great quality stuff too.
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Stoked Steve
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 17, 2010 11:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've already got one '93, I don't think I could handle another one!

Yeah EB's stuff is great and it does come in about 4-5 days, I'm just impatient and want to get this baby back on the road!

Check your PM's Sugarhill!
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Stoked Steve
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 17, 2010 2:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Another question. I assumed that in the four pin connector, two would be power, and the other two would be grounds.

But after seeing the way those wires connect at the fuel sending unit, I'm thinking maybe the pump does have a power and a ground, but that maybe the sending unit uses two power connections?

At the connector coming from the motronic, I'm getting 7 volts at the yellow wire and 10 volts at the white wire, 0 volts at the brown and 0 volts at the green when the key is switched on. Is this what it's supposed be?

Just wanted to be sure I'm getting the correct voltage coming from the motronic before I start cutting and replacing the connectors.
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Stoked Steve
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 17, 2010 3:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's a few pics of the solder connections at the sender unit. Is that rusty ass ground an issue?

Can someone explain how four wires go in at the connector and only three come out at the sender unit?

I'm also assuming that yellow wire going from the connector becomes the same yellow wire going to the pump. Because I do get a reading from the yellow pin to the other two solder connections, just not the one with the yellow wire attached to it. The other two solder connections just have a small black wires attached to them.

A bit confused.....I can't figure out which wires connect to which at the solder junction.

Thanks.




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joeangi
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 17, 2010 3:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Steve if you look at my "fuel sending unit repair" (sorry I do not know how to link it) there are some pics that might help. The blueish/ greyish wires go up to the reostat for the fuel gauge. That ground is nasty, but it appears to be spotwelded to the sending unit. I would just clean it up. I am not sure, but I would imagine that the pump shares a ground with one of those wires.
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Stoked Steve
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 17, 2010 4:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The ground tab has a black wire soldered to it that goes to the ground on the pump. I do get a good connectivity reading from the end of the black wire (where it would hook up to the pump) and anywhere on the sender brackets, so I believe that connection is fine, just not real pretty!

And yes, I figured the bluish grey wires go to the fuel gauge (which works just fine) 'cause I can see where those go. I just couldn't tell which color wires they came from the connector, white? brown? green? a combination there of? Does the yellow wire in become the yellow wire out?

Here's a lnk to your sender repair article, your ground tab looks a lot nicer than mine!

http://www.k11og.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=8488&highlight=fuel+sending+unit+repair
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Scott_Anderson
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 17, 2010 4:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well Steve, from the connector in to the inside of the tank,
Brown will be your common Ground.
Green/wht stripe will be for the fuel pump power.
Yellow is for the fuel level guage.
White is for the low fuel idiot light on the inst cluster.

You will want a good complete circuit, ie 0. ohms or less from the connector to the pump terminals.
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1995 K1100LT 0302044
1997 R1100RT ZC62149
2017 FLHTK Ultra Limited
Garmin StreetPilot 2820
Garmin Zumo 550
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Scott_Anderson
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 17, 2010 4:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

skdonlan wrote:
At the connector coming from the motronic, I'm getting 7 volts at the yellow wire and 10 volts at the white wire, 0 volts at the brown and 0 volts at the green when the key is switched on. Is this what it's supposed be?


Measure the Brown(-) and Green(+) as you turn the ign on as the power is only momentary until the you start the motor. It should be 12v for 3-4 seconds then turn off. Just like you would normally hear the pump pressurize the system when you turn the key on.
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1995 K1100LT 0302044
1997 R1100RT ZC62149
2017 FLHTK Ultra Limited
Garmin StreetPilot 2820
Garmin Zumo 550
Garmin Zumo XT
"One who does not ask questions is ashamed to learn" Danish proverb
1997 K1100LT 0302488(R.I.P.)
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Stoked Steve
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 17, 2010 4:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for electrical expertise Scott, it's a big help. I do get a 12V reading for a few seconds when I put the + on green and the - on brown, then it goes back down to 0. So I assume that's all good.

If I test the green/whit stripe to the yellow at the solder I get nothing on the OHM meter.

Does that mean an issue with that connection?

Quote:
You will want a good complete circuit, ie 0. ohms or less from the connector to the pump terminals.


This is where you lose me with your black arts, how is 0 a good connection? Aren't you sending electricity through a circuit and then seeing that it comes out the other side as a reading of some sort? Please educate the ignorant.
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Ernie-NH
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 17, 2010 5:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Steve...

"0" ohms means little/no resistance hence good conductivity in the line..ie: good connection!

" high to infinite" ohms means high resistance hence poor conductivity...ie: poor connection !

Good luck and best regards....// Ernie-NH
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Stoked Steve
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 17, 2010 6:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK, I'm slowly geting my thick skull around these concepts, thanks for the education.

Bottom lline, I should get a reading if I touch my probes to the green/white stripe wire at the connector (tank side) and the other one to the yellow wire/solder connector at the sender unit, (which I am not), indicating a bad connection there, which may be in the connector or in the line. Right?

Thanks for the patience...
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Scott_Anderson
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 17, 2010 7:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

skdonlan wrote:
OK, I'm slowly geting my thick skull around these concepts, thanks for the education.


Welcome to the club. Laughing You are not alone.

skdonlan wrote:

Bottom lline, I should get a reading if I touch my probes to the green/white stripe wire at the connector (tank side) and the other one to the yellow wire/solder connector at the sender unit, (which I am not), indicating a bad connection there, which may be in the connector or in the line. Right?.


You are on the right track. You want the same reading as if you touch your two probes directly to each other.
Somewhere between that solder joint and the end of the factory male connector plug you have a broken circuit. If I were a betting man I'd bet it's at the male connector end, since they have been known to go bad for others.
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1995 K1100LT 0302044
1997 R1100RT ZC62149
2017 FLHTK Ultra Limited
Garmin StreetPilot 2820
Garmin Zumo 550
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"One who does not ask questions is ashamed to learn" Danish proverb
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Stoked Steve
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 17, 2010 7:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Scott, that's where I was heading, I just wanted confirmation of my thought process.

Next step, new connectors. I wonder if 4 wire trailer plugs would suffice????

(edit) This is wierd, I have about 10 or so postings lately that show up as the "top" of a new page. This is freaking me out.
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Last edited by Stoked Steve on Sat Apr 17, 2010 7:51 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Scott_Anderson
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 17, 2010 7:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Steve, here's a pic of what I was talking about when I mentioned a generic 4pin weather proof connector.



It's even got the same 4 color wires. Laughing

Very easily picked up at your local parts store. Obviously don't use those blue tapping connectors, unless you want more problems. Rolling Eyes
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1995 K1100LT 0302044
1997 R1100RT ZC62149
2017 FLHTK Ultra Limited
Garmin StreetPilot 2820
Garmin Zumo 550
Garmin Zumo XT
"One who does not ask questions is ashamed to learn" Danish proverb
1997 K1100LT 0302488(R.I.P.)
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Stoked Steve
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 17, 2010 7:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That looks just like a trailer wire connector ( I should know as I've hooked up quite a few trailers lately!), I'm on it!
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Steve
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garynali
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 17, 2010 11:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gday Steve
This my first post but have been looking at the site for a few years.I have a 93 model RS that had your problem. The intermittent fuel pump can be hard to troubleshoot. As you say your pump can't be faulted when powered up so likely not that. More likely the fuel pump relay ( can be taken out and bench tested) or the connection on the motoronic computer. From memory the computer gives both power and earth to the fuel pump relay when the ignition is turned on. I ended up cleaning and coating all the connections in the system with dielectric grease. This fixed it. If not the pump is a bosch commonly used in fords ( EA FALCON Australian ford ) and the computer is very expensive genuine only.
Good luck
Gary Chadwick , Hervey Bay, Australia
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Stoked Steve
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 18, 2010 8:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the suggestions. I've replaced the relay and tried a new pump (the ford substitute). I think I've got it down to a wire from the connecotr to the fuel sending unit. I'll be replacing the connector today and see if that's it.
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