K11 Owners Group

[RAL88]

Ok, So I just picked up a '95' R1100GS with 15k original miles on it and it is waiting for me in New Mexico. I am changing out the M94 transmission for an M97 and will be doing a full spline lube.

My question is now that I have powdered moly and powdered tungsten what does everyone think of just mixing that with Sig Wurth 3000 to make my own spline lube. Also should I mix it per volume or weight?

Opinions are most welcome.
_________________
Rich

"If it ain't broke, take it apart and make it work better"
*************
'96' K1100LT-SE
'97' R850GS-R

[Lone Rider of Santa Fe]

FWIW I just splined my lubes and used a 50-50 mix of Honda moly and Sig 3000 per general recommendations. Given that Honda moly is 60% molybdenum disulfide then the math suggests mixing 30% powder (by weight or volume?) to the Sig grease to obtain the same ratio. Or you can just buy a tube of Honda Moly and mix it with the Sig
_________________
Paul
'96 K11RS "Victor"

[jpberens1994K1100RS]

Go to " Guard Dog Moly " get the correct paste.

GD-570 Moly Paste
(Antiseize)


Clean the splines, then really rub this stuff on them. It seems to burnish into the metal, be done with it for a very very long time.

I used to use the mix thing on my 81 R100RS, but the K's with a higher HP & torque may demad a bit more.

Lubing it is better than leaving it dry at least.
_________________
1993 K1100RS that I'd rather be riding FAST!
2014 Moto Guzzi Norge

[merlin geikie]

FWIW I reckon use the Wurth to provide the stickiness say half by weight then mix in half by weight of the remainder ie one fourth moly and half by weight of the remainder ie the last fourth of the tungsten.

Sounds complex but I think you'll know what I mean

That way you have plenty of sticky matrix in the Wurth and are using the powders.... the black powders I presume

[RAL88]

[Ernie-NH]

Hi Rich...

I'd say forget the moly IF you have the WS2 already ! As you know the lubricating potential for WS2 far exceeds that of MoS2 and the smaller particulate size will allow it to remain trapped within/along the dynamic surfaces of the spline as opposed to being mechanically displaced along the spline groove everytime the surface slides...

Good luck BTW on your move to ABQ....!

very best regards, will miss you at HM4........// Ernie in NH
_________________
AMA,, American Deaf Bikers
Airhead Beemers Club
'11 G650gs
'95 K1100LT
'76 R100/7

[merlin geikie]

Ernie has nailed it

[RAL88]

Here is a little bit more information, probably more than you want to know.

Moly will attach to itself and make thicker layers as it goes. Now this isn't like its going to be a 1/4 inch thick when you are done but this does make a difference when considering ball bearings long term. With WS2 it is so slippery that it will not stick to itself. What this leaves you with is a .5 - .6 micron thick layer on the pressure surfaces and this includes ball bearings. This small amount won't hurt the ball bearing at all.

Thanks Ernie and I will miss all at HMIV also. I will keep everyone updated when I get our there. I am leaving on the 10th of March and will start work on the 15th.
_________________
Rich

"If it ain't broke, take it apart and make it work better"
*************
'96' K1100LT-SE
'97' R850GS-R

[Ernie-NH]

Hi Rich...

Re your comment : ""Moly will attach to itself and make thicker layers as it goes""

When I was lab testing MoS2 for a transmission application. we saw that while the material remains in suspension fairly well, it does however tend to agglomerate due to the low shear energy of molecular structure. Wherever the lubricant flow within the system was either very low or zero ( ie: just inboard and just outboard of bearing races for example, or "dead zone" pockets in/around transmission gussets internal to the casting ) large deposits would form and be incapable of being retrieved by the lubricant stream. However, on all load bearing dynamic surfaces such as gear involutes, the MoS2 proved very effective as a lubricant enhancement, as measured by "before/after" torque evaluations as a whole and as component pieces. Though it was not measured, I'm sure that at some point, the concentration of MoS2 to SAE80 could be optimized.

In testing the WS2 in the same application study, the results were markedly different, first in that there was no agglomeration but rather, WS2 tended to precipitate when static, but was readily reacquired by the fluid stream once the transmission was again activated. In measuring the required input torque as well as output torque, I remember there being a nearly 20% improvement overall when compared to SAE80 alone, and something like a 12% when compared to the MoS2 study. When the components from both studies were compared and observed on shaft surfaces and involute surfaces as well, it was seen that MoS2 was only adherent to these surfaces, whereas the WS2 became entrained within the microstructure ( Ra4- Ra6 ) wherever a mechanical load had been exerted.

The chief problem as I recall was getting the WS2 into proper suspension, ie: wetting the nano particulate sufficiently to induce suspension. We were very afraid at that time, that nano particulate could be easily pass thru the safety mask and/or migrate directly thru latex to the epidermis and further. I can only say that that did not SEEM to prove true, BUT I cannot say that it did not. I am still very very guarded and cautious relative to the handling of nano particulate and its potential impact relative to the body... You are using something much larger (?) 0.5 micron ( 0.5 x 10-4 mm ) or at least 10 times the size of our 10 nM particulate, however I think you will get spectacular results just the same.

On the "spline lube", I would start with a high shear die grease like Lubri-Plate and try mixing a vol/vol paste. Because the W contributes so much to the weight, a simple wgt/wgt would seem to be unreliable in term of % present. I have mixed pure MoS2 powder ( from Guard Dog ) with lubri-plate many times with complete success.

At any rate... good luck with the move, good luck with your lubrication experiment, AND even better luck with the new job/position !!

See you on the asphalt someday .......// Ernie in Nh
_________________
AMA,, American Deaf Bikers
Airhead Beemers Club
'11 G650gs
'95 K1100LT
'76 R100/7

[RAL88]

Thanks Ernie for the info.

I think I will try a 50/50 by volume of WS2 and Sig 3000 and see how sticky that remains. I don't want to add to much powder and make the mix too dry.

It will still be a couple of months before we are completely moved out to NM and I can try the WS2 in the engine oil. I will let everyone know what I think when I get it added.
_________________
Rich

"If it ain't broke, take it apart and make it work better"
*************
'96' K1100LT-SE
'97' R850GS-R