Arizona

[Roy S.]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100603/ap_ ... a_governor

[Freedom45]

" . . . it's a crime to be illegal in Arizona . ." quote from local paper.

Arizona's immigration law duplicates Federal Law, the difference is that Arizonans are ready and willing to act. In a recent statewide poll, those responding favored the new law overwhelmingly as they have in other national polls.

Governor Brewer not only supported the new immigration law, she also championed the passage of the new concealed carry law that enables Arizona citizens to carry firearms concealed without a permit. Both of these issues assure her re-election this Fall. Kudos to Brewer for showing leadership.

[John Clauss]

I have said it before, if our "illegal immigration problems" were coming from the north instead of the south, it would be a non-issue. The biggest issue here is racism pure and simple.

[sdaniel]

I have said it before, if our "illegal immigration problems" were coming from the north instead of the south, it would be a non-issue. The biggest issue here is racism pure and simple.

It's not racism when a person can't understand someone when ordering something from a drive thru restaurant, or if you ask for some sweet and low or Splenda, and that person has to go get another employee who can understand you. That's not racism, its poor customer service. Just try it for yourself at one of these Southern border states.

Am I a bigot NO, I'm American, mix of Cherokee Indian, Dutch, Scottish, Irish and German. Guess what, I speak English.

My Father and Mother in law immigrated from Canada after WW2, He was in the Canadian Army. They had to have money, a contact, and a place to live before they were even allowed to come to America.

All are welcome, Just come legally, that's what America is supposed to be.

my .02 worth.

[Freedom45]

[quote="John Clauss"]I have said it before, if our "illegal immigration problems" were coming from the north instead of the south, it would be a non-issue. The biggest issue here is racism pure and simple.[/quote]


The Canadian illegals are targeted with equal treatment. That said, there is a huge difference in the problems that come from the south. Arizona's budget deficit, which is huge, is said to be equal to the money we spend on the illegals here. Too, consider that a major problem is the drug trafficking from Mexico's cartels, something that hasn't occurred with our northern neighbors.

Racism? Ask my neighbors to the south of me; they are resident aliens. And ask my neighbors across the alley; they are naturalized citizens, both neighbors from Mexico. They believe strongly that SB1070 is long overdue and support every effort to deport illegals. Much as did President Eisenhower and his Operation Wetback that sent millions of illegals back to their country of origin. No, our approach is simply logical and common sense.

[John Clauss]

My biggest issue with SB1070 is that it goes against the very premise of our American judicial system and the Constitution. The "Innocent until proved guilty". Hmmmm, those people have dark skin, lets pull them over and check their papers. Meanwhile any illegals from Europe or Asia go unchecked. Also all of those legal and naturalized citizens that happen to come from Mexico or points south will need to deal with this constantly.

Someone explain to me how this does not seem un-American, I do not get it.

I am all for strong borders and making sure people go through the process legally, but this Draconian law is simply not the way to do it.

[Freedom45]

[quote="John Clauss"]My biggest issue with SB1070 is that it goes against the very premise of our American judicial system and the Constitution. The "Innocent until proved guilty". Hmmmm, those people have dark skin, lets pull them over and check their papers. Meanwhile any illegals from Europe or Asia go unchecked. Also all of those legal and naturalized citizens that happen to come from Mexico or points south will need to deal with this constantly.

Someone explain to me how this does not seem un-American, I do not get it.

I am all for strong borders and making sure people go through the process legally, but this Draconian law is simply not the way to do it.[/quote]



Hello John

Many have voice similar concerns and, as such, they are valid. The manner in which the enforcement takes place will determine if there are violations of civil rights in the long run. The general approach, as explained by officers that come to our store, is to ask everyone for valid ID, which they have been doing for years. "Can I see you drivers license, insurance and registration, please?" Now, if there is a gap in that legally required documentation, it may lead to questions of citizenship or naturalization. I have no problem with this approach. If they are not legally here, if they have broken myriad laws to leech off of the rest of us, I have no problem with sending back to their country of origin. If they are part of the cartel's drug smuggling, I have no problem squashing them as flat as possible.

[Flying Duck]

Up in my neck of the woods, illegal immigration has two fronts. South of the border and north of the border. The north of the border issue is illegals from Asia, many Chinese, who get smuggled into Vancouver via container ship and head south.

If someone is here illegally, then they're here illegally. It doesn't matter what their skin color is.

[drikko]

I saw a report recently that listed the largest number of illegal aliens in OZ were from USA and Britain in that order, mostly Visa overstayers. However all you ever hear about in the media are the much smaller number of boat people coming down from Indonesia, mostly from hell holes such as *stans, Sril Lanka and other asian countries, who can blame them! The fact that the Brit and USA, and to a lesser extent NZ, overstayers outnumber them 10 to 1 escapes the populist media. Racism at its worst I'm afraid.

What I don't like however is the second generation of a lot of these boat people, and the legitimate refugees, don't appreciate what their parents escaped from and too, the youth gangs have decided to start pushing their home issues here. Well they can just piss off when they do that.

[Off the grid]

What I don't like however is the second generation of a lot of these boat people, and the legitimate refugees, don't appreciate what their parents escaped from and too, the youth gangs have decided to start pushing their home issues here. Well they can just piss off when they do that.

Wife and I were just talking about that the other day, how the first generation of Immigrants are usually hardworking humble folk and their offspring are usually vapid, self-centered lazy assholes.

[Roy S.]

What I don't like however is the second generation of a lot of these boat people, and the legitimate refugees, don't appreciate what their parents escaped from and too, the youth gangs have decided to start pushing their home issues here. Well they can just piss off when they do that.

Wife and I were just talking about that the other day, how the first generation of Immigrants are usually hardworking humble folk and their offspring are usually vapid, self-centered lazy assholes.

the american(a) way... these days

[Naked Hoof]

What I don't like however is the second generation of a lot of these boat people, and the legitimate refugees, don't appreciate what their parents escaped from and too, the youth gangs have decided to start pushing their home issues here. Well they can just piss off when they do that.

Wife and I were just talking about that the other day, how the first generation of Immigrants are usually hardworking humble folk and their offspring are usually vapid, self-centered lazy assholes.

Sounds like they are being assimilated into our BORG society.

[Freedom45]

Arizona is a bit behind Missouri which has enacted progressively tougher illegal immigrant polices since 2007. Police ID everyone stopped, English is the only language for state government business and funds are not available to illegals for schooling. Perhaps, Arizona can catch up.

[John Clauss]

Up in my neck of the woods, illegal immigration has two fronts. South of the border and north of the border. The north of the border issue is illegals from Asia, many Chinese, who get smuggled into Vancouver via container ship and head south.

If someone is here illegally, then they're here illegally. It doesn't matter what their skin color is.

A lot of our illegal Asians here are working in the sex trade. We have had about 10 busts of massage parlors recently, and all of the girls were here illegally and "working" off their debt for transportation into the states. One the of the girls has been here 15 years and was still "working".

Most of the guys busted running these rings: White guys, interesting isn't it.

[supercat1]

Arizona is a bit behind Missouri which has enacted progressively tougher illegal immigrant polices since 2007. Police ID everyone stopped, English is the only language for state government business and funds are not available to illegals for schooling. Perhaps, Arizona can catch up.

they're just trying to keep kansans out.

/kansas, protecting the union from missouri since 1861!

[Klinker]

Impact on schools

"In the last five weeks, we're down about almost 100 students," said Jeffrey Smith, superintendent of the Balsz Elementary School District.

He says the state reimburses the district about $5,000 per child.

"The hundred students that we've lost translate into, I believe, a half-a-million dollars," he said.

The school year ended last Friday. During the summer break, more students are expected to leave town. If the district loses too much funding, it could be forced to cut teachers. Smith's also concerned about how the exodus will impact surrounding neighborhoods.

"It can blight a community," the superintendent said. "So you have apartments that are less and less full. Businesses close down. So we're very concerned about what effect this will have on the economy in this area."

But isn't the economic impact offset by the money taxpayers will save on social services? Probably not.

Judy Gans studies the economics of immigration at the University of Arizona. She says the state doesn't have a surplus of young, low-skilled workers. So, if Arizona kicks out all the illegal immigrants, and replaces them with Americans from other states, taxpayers will still have to subside the low-skilled workers.

"Any low-skilled worker generally is going to pay less in taxes than they consume in social services," Gans said.

Before the recession, Gans says immigrant labor helped fuel growth in construction, manufacturing and the hotel industry.

"One needs to be really careful about sort of thinking we can parse this and get rid of certain categories of workers without hurting the whole industry," she said.

Read the resthere.

Seems like yet another Republican short-sighted "Ready, FIRE, aim" "solution."

[John Clauss]

Illegal immigration is often used as a diversionary tactic, by BOTH parties. Think about anytime a hub bub has been raised about it, and there was something else much more serious lurking in the shadows. This round is the recession, the time before that was the Iraq invasion gone wrong (being bogged down and such). Seriously both parties use the issue as a "look over there" kind of thing.

Like the Republicans used family values during the 2002 elections, we didn't hear a word about it the last time. Diversionary. Drawing attention away from the real weaknesses.

[Off the grid]

Illegal immigration is often used as a diversionary tactic, by BOTH parties. Think about anytime a hub bub has been raised about it, and there was something else much more serious lurking in the shadows. This round is the recession, the time before that was the Iraq invasion gone wrong (being bogged down and such). Seriously both parties use the issue as a "look over there" kind of thing.

Like the Republicans used family values during the 2002 elections, we didn't hear a word about it the last time. Diversionary. Drawing attention away from the real weaknesses.

The entire political process, media, TV etc are all diversionary tactics to keep the ignorant masses placated from focusing on the real issues...

[Freedom45]

[quote="Off the grid"

The entire political process, media, TV etc are all diversionary tactics to keep the ignorant masses placated from focusing on the real issues...[/quote]

I'm always interested in other's opinions and perceptions. Please elaborate on yours regarding "the real issues". Thanks.

Separate matter: how do you like your FZ1? How many miles? Problems with the bike? There is a 2006 for sale nearby at a reasonable price and I do like naked bikes.

[drikko]

Had to laugh this morning on the radio, the State gumment here announced that in Brisbane, the government subsidsises local rail journeys to the tune of $10 each, of which $4 was the cost of recovering the average $2 fare actually charged. The radio host rightly pointed out that if you made all rail travel free, not only would the gumment save $2 per trip, you'd get a lot more people out of cars. Well you should have heard the pollie stumble around that one..." well I don't think even your listeners would expect that the users of the system shouldn't pay a reasonable fee for use of the train system....blah blah blah". What a crock of xhit!!!

Gotta tell you I'm getting sick of the spin pollies are resorting to these days, I travel to China a lot and have so for decades, I used to be amused by all the government rhetoric on the TV there, I suspect we are not far behind them these days....

[Off the grid]

The entire political process, media, TV etc are all diversionary tactics to keep the ignorant masses placated from focusing on the real issues...

I'm always interested in other's opinions and perceptions. Please elaborate on yours regarding "the real issues". Thanks.

Separate matter: how do you like your FZ1? How many miles? Problems with the bike? There is a 2006 for sale nearby at a reasonable price and I do like naked bikes.

Like the fact that our so called elected public officials work for big business, corporations and the banking industry and not the people of the country.

Like how they spend 2 billion of our tax dollars a day on the military machine.

Etc, etc etc etc etc etc.

The FZ1? Love it. Bulletproof engine and tranny. Dead-simple to work on, great ergos, good light touring capacity, literally pennies to maintain and run, can be had for a song, crazy fast and good handling, etc etc etc.

[Off the grid]

/stolen from ADV
Explains it a whole lot better than I could.

IMO, what's usurped the power of the people is the Corporation. These non-human entities have far more influence that individual humans, families or even states. They live longer, make more money, and hold more property than we humans ever could.

So what's our response to increasingly powerful corporations? Increasingly powerful governments--we throw our weight behind another variety of non-human entity to do battle with the nasty corps. Occasionally, a gov will win a battle against a weakened corp, but usually the corps just infiltrate and subvert.

I'm not sure what the answer is, but I think govs and corps are similar beasts. Neither has much interest in power of the people.

[Freedom45]

"Like the fact that our so called elected public officials work for big business, corporations and the banking industry and not the people of the country. "

OK, I'm a tad naive and admit it, however, it seems to me that we the people elect those public officials and we can turn them out of office. Of course, there is corruption at highest levels, yet, to paint them all as corrupt or caught up in the throes of influence peddling and special interests is to paint with too broad a brush.

IMO it is far too easy to blame the politicians for our woes. Citizen participation in the process is an essential of a free state and there are ample opportunities to get involved. It seems to me that cynicism is more an excuse for lack of participation. It certainly is easier than doing something.

[Off the grid]

I agree 100%, but short of outright revolution what can one working man with a family do?

I think you overestimate our ability to change the machine, and give FAR too much credit to the "elected officials" to actually serve the people. (hard to say with a straight face)

When was the Government actually FOR the people? Korea? WWII?

I'm guessing when they discovered war was profitable for the select few.

"Turn them out"?

Like Bush in 00 and 04? C'mon man, you actually don't believe WE have a say, do you?

I don't think you are I are staring down the same rabbit hole.

"Like the fact that our so called elected public officials work for big business, corporations and the banking industry and not the people of the country. "

OK, I'm a tad naive and admit it, however, it seems to me that we the people elect those public officials and we can turn them out of office. Of course, there is corruption at highest levels, yet, to paint them all as corrupt or caught up in the throes of influence peddling and special interests is to paint with too broad a brush.

IMO it is far too easy to blame the politicians for our woes. Citizen participation in the process is an essential of a free state and there are ample opportunities to get involved. It seems to me that cynicism is more an excuse for lack of participation. It certainly is easier than doing something.

[Freedom45]

[quote="Off the grid"]I agree 100%, but short of outright revolution what can one working man with a family do?

-Thanks for your ideas and viewpoints, sincerely. One thing that can be done is to get involved and opportunities exist on many levels within every city, town or community.

I think you overestimate our ability to change the machine, and give FAR too much credit to the "elected officials" to actually serve the people. (hard to say with a straight face)

-You may be right, but, I hold a strong belief that most people in this country hold values and ideals more in common than the minority viewpoints that seem to be creeping into our daily lives. I do not wish to stand by and see the erosion of those values without attempting to counteract.

When was the Government actually FOR the people? Korea? WWII?

-Well, we are communicating in English rather than German or Japanese.

I'm guessing when they discovered war was profitable for the select few.

"Turn them out"?

Like Bush in 00 and 04? C'mon man, you actually don't believe WE have a say, do you?

I don't think you are I are staring down the same rabbit hole.

- Perhaps. However, maybe staring doesn't cut it in the long run. Maybe we need to change the rabbit hole? Ready to dig?