| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
Flying Duck
PsyKotic Waterfowl
Joined: 27 Jan 2005
Posts: 10102
Location: Bumf***, WA
|
 Posted: Sat May 09, 2009 12:54 pm Post subject: Re: Well done on the research...Doctor Duck |
 |
|
| merlin geikie wrote: |  Yes well...right in my own backyard. Yes a bit of solderin...can do that. And fully adjustable for variable conditions...and of course the LED...too good.
Wonderin if the K100 has the same rad as the K11, volume, surface area, fin count, coolant tank size, inlet and outlet pipe diameters etc?
Must be a good idea.... if Dr Duck s definately goin ahead with orderin and fitment. Ive bookmarked that site, good one.
I mean... the support here on K11OG is awesome.
Not sure how to do that cool quotation thingy...where the quoted text is sorta greyed out a bit.
Thankyou very much folks
  |
The K1100 and K100 (RT model of the K75 as well) all use the exact same radiator.
The one exception is that the early K100s had a radiator that was 50% thicker. (also know as a 3 core radiator vs. a later 2 core radiator)
_________________
93 LT (x2)
94 RS
86-97 K75F(K75/100/1100 Frankenbrick)
86 K75C w/paralever, hi perf cams,TURBO!
91 & 92 K75Ss
91 K1
86 custom K100
14 WR250R
IBA #17739 (SS1K, BBG, 50CC)
Buy parts HERE |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Flying Duck
PsyKotic Waterfowl
Joined: 27 Jan 2005
Posts: 10102
Location: Bumf***, WA
|
| Posted: Sat May 09, 2009 12:57 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I picked up a 3 core radiator from an 85 K100 on ebay for $20 a few weels ago. When I opened the box low and behold it looks like someone has already installed a thermo switch in it.
Maybe I'll give that a whirl....
_________________
93 LT (x2)
94 RS
86-97 K75F(K75/100/1100 Frankenbrick)
86 K75C w/paralever, hi perf cams,TURBO!
91 & 92 K75Ss
91 K1
86 custom K100
14 WR250R
IBA #17739 (SS1K, BBG, 50CC)
Buy parts HERE |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Gary Bennett
Mad Brick Rider
Joined: 06 Jun 2005
Posts: 127
Location: Brisbane, Australia
|
| Posted: Sun May 10, 2009 1:31 am Post subject: |
|
|
All K100 models use the 33% thicker radiator except the 4 Valve models ( K100RS 4V & K1) which use the same thin radiator as the K1100 models.
_________________
Gary
'94 K1100RS |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Jim
Site Admin
Joined: 17 May 2003
Posts: 3841
Location: WHERETHEFUNNEVERENDS
|
| Posted: Sun May 10, 2009 9:17 pm Post subject: engine heat dissipation |
|
|
| Flying Duck wrote: | Jim:
I'm interested in how the 3 core thing works out. I have a couple of them in my basement but haven't convinced myself if it's worth the effort or not. |
Drake - the mod is worth it. The engine is slower to heat up to the point where the thermostat opens, and if you are stuck in traffic (as I was for 40 minutes on the way to HMSP II), the fan doesn't have to run as long to cool the engine back down = less heat on the rider.
Although the thermostat is still managing the engine temperature, and keeping the engine in about the same operating range, it normally doesn't run quite as hot as it did. I'm just going by the gauge - I didn't take digital thermometer readings before and after the mod.
I don't know if this ends up being a problem or not. The radiators on the K bikes have a bypass system - I guess this mod allows the engine to run just a little cooler. I didn't notice any gas mileage issues or any other indicators that it might be running too cool. I know the engine is designed to operate within a certain range - but since they used the three core radiators with the same thermostat on other bikes, I'm guessing it's not a problem.
Nice of you to wait until I got my thermoswitch at HMSP II (thanks, Rich) to find the electronic fan speed controller... 
_________________
Jim
1997 K1100LTSE 94,000 - still has gremlins!
1995 R100RT Classic 16,650 crashed - repaired!
1992 K75RTP 46,000
"We shall not all die, but we shall all be changed." |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Flying Duck
PsyKotic Waterfowl
Joined: 27 Jan 2005
Posts: 10102
Location: Bumf***, WA
|
| Posted: Sun May 10, 2009 9:31 pm Post subject: Re: engine heat dissipation |
|
|
| Jim wrote: | | Nice of you to wait until I got my thermoswitch at HMSP II (thanks, Rich) to find the electronic fan speed controller... |
Hey, I do my best.
I'm going to take that 3 core with the thermoswitch already in it and see what happens if I install it on the LT.
For the RS I have another 3 core radiator that I picked up on the cheap and I'll do the switch kit on that bike.
_________________
93 LT (x2)
94 RS
86-97 K75F(K75/100/1100 Frankenbrick)
86 K75C w/paralever, hi perf cams,TURBO!
91 & 92 K75Ss
91 K1
86 custom K100
14 WR250R
IBA #17739 (SS1K, BBG, 50CC)
Buy parts HERE |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
merlin geikie
Flying Brick Rider
Joined: 26 Dec 2008
Posts: 343
Location: Lismore far north coast nsw australia
|
| Posted: Mon May 11, 2009 8:58 am Post subject: I wonder what they were thinking....K10 vs K11 rad |
|
|
Yep...the whole cooling thing is intriguin. Funny that the K10 has the cooler rad (3 core) yet has a cooler running motor. Presuming the K10 motor runs cooler being less 'beefed up' than the K11 motor. Yet they gave K11 a less efficient rad (2 core).
Could it be that the 4 valve motor discharges more heat through better exhaust gas outflow than the 2 valve? Ime pretty sure the K bike engineers were pretty cluey, possibly very cluey.
Does anyone know the operating temp range of these two motors? How would putting in a different (earlier opening) thermostat affect the motor runnin in a high temp environments?
All the best folks and ....thankyou....my K bike is getting closer and runnin cooler already  |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
SugarHillCTD
Site Admin
Joined: 10 Oct 2007
Posts: 4238
Location: Now in Eastern Pennsylvania
|
| Posted: Mon May 11, 2009 10:07 am Post subject: |
|
|
Has anyone tried running a K1100 without the thermostat? Would it allow the fluid to move faster, thereby removing more heat?
The radiator doesn't hold that much water to slow engine warm-up without the 'stat, but would it help cooling?
_________________
John & Cathy
'92 K100RS4V Pearl White SOLD
'04 K1200GT
IBA Several-SS1k, BBG, 50CC NYC to S.F. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Jim
Site Admin
Joined: 17 May 2003
Posts: 3841
Location: WHERETHEFUNNEVERENDS
|
| Posted: Mon May 11, 2009 10:29 am Post subject: |
|
|
| SugarHillCTD wrote: | Has anyone tried running a K1100 without the thermostat? Would it allow the fluid to move faster, thereby removing more heat?
The radiator doesn't hold that much water to slow engine warm-up without the 'stat, but would it help cooling? |
No thermostat would not allow the engine to get up to proper operating temperature.
_________________
Jim
1997 K1100LTSE 94,000 - still has gremlins!
1995 R100RT Classic 16,650 crashed - repaired!
1992 K75RTP 46,000
"We shall not all die, but we shall all be changed." |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
SugarHillCTD
Site Admin
Joined: 10 Oct 2007
Posts: 4238
Location: Now in Eastern Pennsylvania
|
| Posted: Mon May 11, 2009 10:41 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Jim wrote: | | SugarHillCTD wrote: | Has anyone tried running a K1100 without the thermostat? Would it allow the fluid to move faster, thereby removing more heat?
The radiator doesn't hold that much water to slow engine warm-up without the 'stat, but would it help cooling? |
No thermostat would not allow the engine to get up to proper operating temperature. |
You mean it would run cooler? I'll sign up for that.
It is the "proper running temperature" that is baking my legs!
_________________
John & Cathy
'92 K100RS4V Pearl White SOLD
'04 K1200GT
IBA Several-SS1k, BBG, 50CC NYC to S.F. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Jim
Site Admin
Joined: 17 May 2003
Posts: 3841
Location: WHERETHEFUNNEVERENDS
|
| Posted: Mon May 11, 2009 10:56 am Post subject: engine heat dissipation |
|
|
Maybe you need a johnny blanket and a fan switch?
_________________
Jim
1997 K1100LTSE 94,000 - still has gremlins!
1995 R100RT Classic 16,650 crashed - repaired!
1992 K75RTP 46,000
"We shall not all die, but we shall all be changed." |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
SugarHillCTD
Site Admin
Joined: 10 Oct 2007
Posts: 4238
Location: Now in Eastern Pennsylvania
|
| Posted: Mon May 11, 2009 11:19 am Post subject: Re: engine heat dissipation |
|
|
| Jim wrote: | | Maybe you need a johnny blanket and a fan switch? |
Made my own blanket and have a fan switch. But it still runs hot (at least what I feel) from a rider's standpoint.
_________________
John & Cathy
'92 K100RS4V Pearl White SOLD
'04 K1200GT
IBA Several-SS1k, BBG, 50CC NYC to S.F. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
merlin geikie
Flying Brick Rider
Joined: 26 Dec 2008
Posts: 343
Location: Lismore far north coast nsw australia
|
| Posted: Mon May 11, 2009 11:19 am Post subject: Heat mods...... |
|
|
Presumably the thermostat maintains the engine at the correct running temp, and that either lower or higher will hurt the engine through excess wear maybe.
Therefore removing the t stat will allow a continuous high flow of coolant through the rad. Then radiator discharge air temp would, i guess, be only changed by outside air temps and airspeed through the rad, the amount of fuel burnt in the motor, and the speed of the coolant pump.
But from what Gary, and others have said, if you do the fan early cut in mod, the insulation mod (johnny blanket), the fuel lines insulation mod, and the discharge airflow 'no leaks' mod and the 3 core rad mod.....you ll be pretty right.
Thats means the radical, takin out of thermostat and its unknown effects are probably not necessary and too risky. We still dont know what the minimum safe operating temp of the K11 motor is. All the best folks |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Saltcreek
Flying Brick Rider
Joined: 22 Oct 2008
Posts: 957
Location: New Hampshire
|
| Posted: Mon May 11, 2009 12:52 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Isn't the purpose of a thermostat to determine the operating temperature of an engine, to not let it exceed that temperature?
Obviously it can and does run without damage at lower temperatures every time you start out cold or let it cool down at a stop. But a cooler thermostat would be a lot less radical than no thermostat.
Does anyone know what the temp of the stock thermostat is?
If the engine runs hotter than the thermostat than it seems the problem is in the dissipation of the heat. Either too much heat is produced and the dissipation is cooking the rider or the dissipation is not efficient enough, allowing too high a running temperature, cooking the rider.
I've been riding mine since October and never heard my fan come on or seen the temp gauge go beyond half way.
_________________
Jim
1994 K1100LT Mystic Red, bfd, 37000 miles, sold 
2009 Wilderness Systems Zephyr 155 ST
2002 Litespeed titanium |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Mystic Red
Flying Brick Rider
Joined: 28 Mar 2005
Posts: 2330
Location: Twin Lakes Idaho
|
| Posted: Mon May 11, 2009 4:00 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: | Isn't the purpose of a thermostat to determine the operating temperature of an engine, to not let it exceed that temperature?
Obviously it can and does run without damage at lower temperatures every time you start out cold or let it cool down at a stop. But a cooler thermostat would be a lot less radical than no thermostat. |
Would not the Motronic be continually trying to compensate, thinking the engine was warming up? Then you would run rich the time. The thermostats job is to bring the water to temp and keep it there. It opens and closes as needed.
_________________
Scott Hespelt, '94 K11LT
K11 OG #466 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Jim
Site Admin
Joined: 17 May 2003
Posts: 3841
Location: WHERETHEFUNNEVERENDS
|
| Posted: Mon May 11, 2009 6:58 pm Post subject: engine heat |
|
|
| Saltcreek wrote: | Isn't the purpose of a thermostat to determine the operating temperature of an engine, to not let it exceed that temperature?
Obviously it can and does run without damage at lower temperatures every time you start out cold or let it cool down at a stop. But a cooler thermostat would be a lot less radical than no thermostat.
Does anyone know what the temp of the stock thermostat is?
If the engine runs hotter than the thermostat than it seems the problem is in the dissipation of the heat. Either too much heat is produced and the dissipation is cooking the rider or the dissipation is not efficient enough, allowing too high a running temperature, cooking the rider.
I've been riding mine since October and never heard my fan come on or seen the temp gauge go beyond half way. |
Not just to keep it from exceeding the desired temperature, but to keep the engine operating within a desired temp range. I don't know what the new vehicles are running at - my '99 S-10 runs at 210º F.
The K bike thermostats I've seen are 85ºC = 185ºF.
Wait until summer when you're stuck in traffic. If your fan is working, you'll probably hear it come on when the needle reaches the next big hash mark past the center.
_________________
Jim
1997 K1100LTSE 94,000 - still has gremlins!
1995 R100RT Classic 16,650 crashed - repaired!
1992 K75RTP 46,000
"We shall not all die, but we shall all be changed." |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Saltcreek
Flying Brick Rider
Joined: 22 Oct 2008
Posts: 957
Location: New Hampshire
|
| Posted: Tue May 12, 2009 7:11 am Post subject: |
|
|
What I was trying to get at is this: If the rider is feeling too much heat, is it because
a. the bike is running hotter than it should because of a system no longer working as it should or
b. the rider is is not sufficiently shielded from the properly running system of temperature control?
Do higher mileage bikes run hotter as they get older?
_________________
Jim
1994 K1100LT Mystic Red, bfd, 37000 miles, sold
2009 Wilderness Systems Zephyr 155 ST
2002 Litespeed titanium |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Flying Duck
PsyKotic Waterfowl
Joined: 27 Jan 2005
Posts: 10102
Location: Bumf***, WA
|
| Posted: Tue May 12, 2009 9:45 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Saltcreek wrote: | | b. the rider is is not sufficiently shielded from the properly running system of temperature control? |
I think you've found your answer. I look at ti a bit diffrently though - the engein/cooling system doesn't "breathe" to dissipate heat away form the rider as much as it should.
I think it's a basic design flaw. The 2 valve RTs and LTs has the same issue.
On the K1100RS they actually made things worse by covering the valve and cam covers.
| Quote: | | Do higher mileage bikes run hotter as they get older? |
I wouldn't think so. As long as the thermostat, temp sensor, Motronic and fan are all working properly the bike will operate about the same.
_________________
93 LT (x2)
94 RS
86-97 K75F(K75/100/1100 Frankenbrick)
86 K75C w/paralever, hi perf cams,TURBO!
91 & 92 K75Ss
91 K1
86 custom K100
14 WR250R
IBA #17739 (SS1K, BBG, 50CC)
Buy parts HERE |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Jim
Site Admin
Joined: 17 May 2003
Posts: 3841
Location: WHERETHEFUNNEVERENDS
|
| Posted: Tue May 12, 2009 10:17 am Post subject: engine heat dissipation |
|
|
| Saltcreek wrote: | What I was trying to get at is this: If the rider is feeling too much heat, is it because
a. the bike is running hotter than it should because of a system no longer working as it should or
b. the rider is is not sufficiently shielded from the properly running system of temperature control?
Do higher mileage bikes run hotter as they get older? |
Jim - I don't think age or mileage have anything to do with heat issues. Have you checked to make sure all your heat screening is in place? Take a look at the fiche, then look at the bike to make sure you're not missing any heat screening.
Add a fan switch - either manual or electronic.
If the bike is running hot - you should see that on your temp gauge.
b.
_________________
Jim
1997 K1100LTSE 94,000 - still has gremlins!
1995 R100RT Classic 16,650 crashed - repaired!
1992 K75RTP 46,000
"We shall not all die, but we shall all be changed." |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Saltcreek
Flying Brick Rider
Joined: 22 Oct 2008
Posts: 957
Location: New Hampshire
|
| Posted: Tue May 12, 2009 12:38 pm Post subject: |
|
|
So far I don't seem to have a problem. I know all the shield pieces are there because I had them out when I did the fairing repair. Making sure they're back in right is another matter. I'll report back when my fan comes on.
_________________
Jim
1994 K1100LT Mystic Red, bfd, 37000 miles, sold
2009 Wilderness Systems Zephyr 155 ST
2002 Litespeed titanium |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Flying Duck
PsyKotic Waterfowl
Joined: 27 Jan 2005
Posts: 10102
Location: Bumf***, WA
|
| Posted: Tue May 12, 2009 1:08 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Just let the bike sit and idle. The fan will come on. (In the event your fan isn't working turn the bike off if the red overheat lamp in the cluster comes on. You won't hurt the engine - that's why the indicator lamp is there.)
_________________
93 LT (x2)
94 RS
86-97 K75F(K75/100/1100 Frankenbrick)
86 K75C w/paralever, hi perf cams,TURBO!
91 & 92 K75Ss
91 K1
86 custom K100
14 WR250R
IBA #17739 (SS1K, BBG, 50CC)
Buy parts HERE |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
