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andyc
Mad Brick Rider
Joined: 28 Sep 2003
Posts: 77
Location: Sutherlin, OR
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 Posted: Wed May 19, 2010 11:04 pm Post subject: tired engine |
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So I decided to check the water level in the overflow tank. Lots of oil. Lots of oil when I removed the radiator cap too. No water in the oil though. 105,105,110,125 psi compression. According to the book, those are not good numbers. I've put 80k+ miles on the bike for a total of a bit over 143k. I'm thinking this would be a good time to put in a 1200 engine. Could someone who has done this, please send me some information as to what is involved.
Thanks,
Andy
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Flying Duck
PsyKotic Waterfowl
Joined: 27 Jan 2005
Posts: 10102
Location: Bumf***, WA
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| Posted: Wed May 19, 2010 11:56 pm Post subject: |
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Haven't done it myself but I've got a Word doc from the guy who sold me a K1100RS with a K1200 engine. IIRC, he used an early K1200 engine and the K1100 Motronic and TBs so there wasn't a huge (if any) boost in power that I noticed but I rode it across the country and it worked.
Larry R. put a newer K1200 in a K1100 frame and drove it with a Power Commander which I'd imagine adds quite a bit of oomph. That's a bit more work though and I wouldn't blame Larry if he didn't want to give up that knowledge for free.
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robleyd
Flying Brick Rider
Joined: 23 Jul 2009
Posts: 398
Location: Murbko, Australia
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| Posted: Thu May 20, 2010 12:30 am Post subject: |
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From my experience and others here, the problem is most likely traceable to the oil/water pump and a shot seal therein 
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David, owner of:
1996 K1100 LT |
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lrome48
Flying Brick Rider
Joined: 30 Jan 2006
Posts: 364
Location: Northridge, SFV,Southern California
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| Posted: Thu May 20, 2010 2:44 am Post subject: |
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| robleyd wrote: | | From my experience and others here, the problem is most likely traceable to the oil/water pump and a shot seal therein |
robleyd, I would agree with your assessment though the low compression numbers raise a red flag. Even so, oil in the water usually means a blown headgasket or cracked head. If the gasket is blown there will be positive pressure pulses in the radiator with the engine running. Depending on location, a cracked head could weep oil into the water jacket.
Worn rings should indicate by blue smoke in the exhaust, and/or oily residue in the muffler especially with such low comression numbers. Also, there can be oilly grunge around the exhaust manifold flanges at the head.
Andy, if I may ask, how did you test the compression? You have to remove all the spark plugs, and hold the throttle wide open. If you are using the start button instead of using a remote starter (recommended) then make sure you have disconnected the coils.
If the readings stay low, then squirt a little 30 wt oil in the cylinders through the plug holes. The oil will temporarily seal the rings and the compression will go up. If it doesn't then more than likely the valves are leaking. Leaking valves indicate by poor performance, and misfiring, etc.
If you have done the check correctly, and my guess is you have, the low readings on three of the cylinders are not good. Minimal value should be no less than 120 psi. At 143K the rings could be worn. You can re-ring the motor provided the nikasil cylinders are not scored or worn past nominal bore dimensions.
It seems most likely that unless you have been burning excessive oil, or the engine has been running poorly, the problem cold be faulty compression readings and at 143K miles the water pump is a logical culprit. I recommend replacing it vs. rebuilding, especially if the pump shaft is worn. IMO it's much more bang for your buck than rebuilding the pump. One more thing, the pump has a weep hole on the bottom of the housing between the water and oil seals. When either seal goes, the respective fluid should drip from the weep hole indicating impending failure. It is very unlikely the oil would short circuit in the pump to the water side without dripping out the weep hole, unless of course the hole is clogged somehow.
Swapping out a K1200 motor is not really plug and play. I can walk you through it but Drake is right, I would have to charge a modest fee for my time.
I have a good low miles K1100RS motor (43K)if you are interested. 
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Larry
K75
97 K1100 LT Specialk under construction
87 SpecialK75 Carols done!
2004 K12 Special the 'Beast' delivered
K1100 Standard Custom Gone but not forgotten |
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larryb22
Big Brick Rider
Joined: 29 Dec 2008
Posts: 53
Location: Buchanan Michigan
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| Posted: Thu May 20, 2010 8:34 am Post subject: |
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Was the engine warm and the trhottle open all the way when you took the compression readings? Makes a big difference.
Larry
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andyc
Mad Brick Rider
Joined: 28 Sep 2003
Posts: 77
Location: Sutherlin, OR
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| Posted: Thu May 20, 2010 9:09 am Post subject: |
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| lrome48 wrote: | | robleyd wrote: | | From my experience and others here, the problem is most likely traceable to the oil/water pump and a shot seal therein |
robleyd, I would agree with your assessment though the low compression numbers raise a red flag. Even so, oil in the water usually means a blown headgasket or cracked head. If the gasket is blown there will be positive pressure pulses in the radiator with the engine running. Depending on location, a cracked head could weep oil into the water jacket.
Worn rings should indicate by blue smoke in the exhaust, and/or oily residue in the muffler especially with such low comression numbers. Also, there can be oilly grunge around the exhaust manifold flanges at the head.
Andy, if I may ask, how did you test the compression? You have to remove all the spark plugs, and hold the throttle wide open. If you are using the start button instead of using a remote starter (recommended) then make sure you have disconnected the coils.
If the readings stay low, then squirt a little 30 wt oil in the cylinders through the plug holes. The oil will temporarily seal the rings and the compression will go up. If it doesn't then more than likely the valves are leaking. Leaking valves indicate by poor performance, and misfiring, etc.
If you have done the check correctly, and my guess is you have, the low readings on three of the cylinders are not good. Minimal value should be no less than 120 psi. At 143K the rings could be worn. You can re-ring the motor provided the nikasil cylinders are not scored or worn past nominal bore dimensions.
It seems most likely that unless you have been burning excessive oil, or the engine has been running poorly, the problem cold be faulty compression readings and at 143K miles the water pump is a logical culprit. I recommend replacing it vs. rebuilding, especially if the pump shaft is worn. IMO it's much more bang for your buck than rebuilding the pump. One more thing, the pump has a weep hole on the bottom of the housing between the water and oil seals. When either seal goes, the respective fluid should drip from the weep hole indicating impending failure. It is very unlikely the oil would short circuit in the pump to the water side without dripping out the weep hole, unless of course the hole is clogged somehow.
Swapping out a K1200 motor is not really plug and play. I can walk you through it but Drake is right, I would have to charge a modest fee for my time.
I have a good low miles K1100RS motor (43K)if you are interested. |
Thanks all for the replies.
That is how I checked the compression. Except for the disconnecting the coils part. I did open the sidestand switch.
The engine has always used quite a bit of oil since I got it.
It does not run poorly. No missing. Idles fine. Plugs look normal
I saw the oil/water pump idea in a previous post and checked the weep hole first. It was clear.
There is no smoke evident at idle after it warms up, but there is a pretty good amount when opening the throttle rapidly.
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lrome48
Flying Brick Rider
Joined: 30 Jan 2006
Posts: 364
Location: Northridge, SFV,Southern California
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| Posted: Thu May 20, 2010 10:40 am Post subject: |
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That's the funny think about diagnostics. You can have any of the symptoms that point to no apparent cause, or one symptom that can have multiple causes and still get it wrong.
Compression is low mate, the engine may just be tired after all and is trying to tell you it wants to go to the big K motor schrottplatz in the sky.
Offer still stands for the K1100RS motor.
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Larry
K75
97 K1100 LT Specialk under construction
87 SpecialK75 Carols done!
2004 K12 Special the 'Beast' delivered
K1100 Standard Custom Gone but not forgotten |
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andyc
Mad Brick Rider
Joined: 28 Sep 2003
Posts: 77
Location: Sutherlin, OR
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| Posted: Thu May 20, 2010 8:46 pm Post subject: |
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It might be, but because I'm a stubborn/cheap bastard, I can't let it go without tearing it apart first. If it looks too bad, I just might take you up on that other engine.
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robleyd
Flying Brick Rider
Joined: 23 Jul 2009
Posts: 398
Location: Murbko, Australia
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| Posted: Thu May 20, 2010 8:54 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | I saw the oil/water pump idea in a previous post and checked the weep hole first. It was clear. |
As was mine - but the internals were leaking internally, causing the oil in the water.
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1996 K1100 LT |
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