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Flying Duck
PsyKotic Waterfowl
Joined: 27 Jan 2005
Posts: 10102
Location: Bumf***, WA
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 Posted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 12:15 pm Post subject: Interesting article: Oil additives |
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Here's a link if you want to read the whole thing:
http://www.math.uwaterloo.ca/~rblander/snake_oil.txt
Conclusion:
| Quote: | The major oil companies are some of the richest, most powerful
and aggressive corporations in world. They own multi- million dollar
research facilities manned by some of the best chemical engineers
money can hire. It is probably safe to say that any one of them has
the capabilities and resources at hand in marketing, distribution,
advertising, research and product development equal to 20 times that
of any of the independent additive companies. It therefore stands to
reason that if any of these additive products were actu ally capable
of improving the capabilities of engine lubricants, the major oil
companies would have been able to determine that and to find some way
to cash in on it.
Yet of all the oil additives we found, none carried the name or
endorsement of any of the major oil producers.
In addition, all of the major vehicle and engine manufacturers
spend millions of dollars each year trying to increase the longevity
of their products, and millions more paying off warranty claims when
their products fail. Again, it only stands to reason that if they
thought any of these additives would increase the life or improve the
performance of their engines, they would be actively using and
selling them - or at least endorsing their use.
Instead, many of them advise against the use of these additives
and, in some cases, threaten to void their warranty coverage if such
things are found to be used in their products.
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_________________
93 LT (x2)
94 RS
86-97 K75F(K75/100/1100 Frankenbrick)
86 K75C w/paralever, hi perf cams,TURBO!
91 & 92 K75Ss
91 K1
86 custom K100
14 WR250R
IBA #17739 (SS1K, BBG, 50CC)
Buy parts HERE |
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Jim
Site Admin
Joined: 17 May 2003
Posts: 3841
Location: WHERETHEFUNNEVERENDS
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| Posted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 12:18 pm Post subject: |
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Oh - for a minute there I thought you were going to start an oil thread...
_________________
Jim
1997 K1100LTSE 94,000 - still has gremlins!
1995 R100RT Classic 16,650 crashed - repaired!
1992 K75RTP 46,000
"We shall not all die, but we shall all be changed." |
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SugarHillCTD
Site Admin
Joined: 10 Oct 2007
Posts: 4238
Location: Now in Eastern Pennsylvania
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| Posted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 5:46 pm Post subject: Re: Interesting article: Oil additives |
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| Flying Duck wrote: | Here's a link if you want to read the whole thing:
http://www.math.uwaterloo.ca/~rblander/snake_oil.txt
Conclusion:
| Quote: | The major oil companies are some of the richest, most powerful
and aggressive corporations in world. They own multi- million dollar
research facilities manned by some of the best chemical engineers
money can hire. It is probably safe to say that any one of them has
the capabilities and resources at hand in marketing, distribution,
advertising, research and product development equal to 20 times that
of any of the independent additive companies. It therefore stands to
reason that if any of these additive products were actually capable
of improving the capabilities of engine lubricants, the major oil
companies would have been able to determine that and to find some way
to cash in on it.
Yet of all the oil additives we found, none carried the name or
endorsement of any of the major oil producers.
In addition, all of the major vehicle and engine manufacturers
spend millions of dollars each year trying to increase the longevity
of their products, and millions more paying off warranty claims when
their products fail. Again, it only stands to reason that if they
thought any of these additives would increase the life or improve the
performance of their engines, they would be actively using and
selling them - or at least endorsing their use.
Instead, many of them advise against the use of these additives
and, in some cases, threaten to void their warranty coverage if such
things are found to be used in their products.
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Now this is only my amateur reasoning here,
But....why would vehicle/engine manufacturers or oil companies endorse ANYTHING that would make their products last longer? Think about it.
and as far as improving performance- can anyone truly feel a 1% or 2% increase in acceleration or see the same increase in fuel mileage? (that would be about .75 mpg increase- a couple of passes on a 2 lane could erase that easily)
As far as "threatening to void warranties", a best defense is a great offense- they (manufacturers/oil producers) have to show absolutely NO slight crack in their armor. Don't give anybody the slightest foothold.
Hey, they are big oil/ big manufacturers. Who are we to doubt their "edicts"
JMHO,
John
_________________
John & Cathy
'92 K100RS4V Pearl White SOLD
'04 K1200GT
IBA Several-SS1k, BBG, 50CC NYC to S.F. |
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Flying Duck
PsyKotic Waterfowl
Joined: 27 Jan 2005
Posts: 10102
Location: Bumf***, WA
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| Posted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 6:59 pm Post subject: Re: Interesting article: Oil additives |
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| SugarHillCTD wrote: |
Now this is only my amateur reasoning here,
But....why would vehicle/engine manufacturers or oil companies endorse ANYTHING that would make their products last longer? Think about it. |
So, by that logic, BMW final drive issues are something BMW designs INTO their products?
And oil companies (who each adds their own additive pack in the first place) wouldn't want to make their products better to outdo their competitors?
| Quote: | | and as far as improving performance- can anyone truly feel a 1% or 2% increase in acceleration or see the same increase in fuel mileage? (that would be about .75 mpg increase- a couple of passes on a 2 lane could erase that easily) |
EPA mileage ratings are VERY important to both auto manufacturers and their customers as well.
| Quote: | | As far as "threatening to void warranties", a best defense is a great offense- they (manufacturers/oil producers) have to show absolutely NO slight crack in their armor. Don't give anybody the slightest foothold. |
So you think warranties should hold up when owners are throwing various random UNPROVEN snake oils into their vehicles?
| Quote: | | Hey, they are big oil/ big manufacturers. Who are we to doubt their "edicts" |
They're companies competing against each other and their goal is to put out the best quality product at a decent price and make a decent profit for their shareholders. They hire the best people they can to develop their additive packages. Do you think their oil engineers have meetings where they plot how to put out products that will make your vehicle break down?
Amateur reasoning indeed. 
_________________
93 LT (x2)
94 RS
86-97 K75F(K75/100/1100 Frankenbrick)
86 K75C w/paralever, hi perf cams,TURBO!
91 & 92 K75Ss
91 K1
86 custom K100
14 WR250R
IBA #17739 (SS1K, BBG, 50CC)
Buy parts HERE |
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SugarHillCTD
Site Admin
Joined: 10 Oct 2007
Posts: 4238
Location: Now in Eastern Pennsylvania
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| Posted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 8:14 pm Post subject: |
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Drake,
Good points made.
My position was that no manufacturer plans for failure- that would be nuts.
However avoiding factors that might extend product longevity could result in increased consumer $$$. They would 
I doubt that very small "contributions" per consumer is lost on the nickel counters at all the involved industries.
Again just my HO
John
_________________
John & Cathy
'92 K100RS4V Pearl White SOLD
'04 K1200GT
IBA Several-SS1k, BBG, 50CC NYC to S.F. |
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Flying Duck
PsyKotic Waterfowl
Joined: 27 Jan 2005
Posts: 10102
Location: Bumf***, WA
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| Posted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 9:20 pm Post subject: |
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Manufacturers COMPETE. If their product has a higher failure rate then their customers go somewhere else. It's silly to assume that manufacturers don't care if their products fail or that that somehow motivates them to skimp so they'll sell more product later. That's just not how it works.
Of course there are lower end products with higher failure rates but they don't design/produce with the intent of the product failing. They using lower end components/processes to keep the price at a certain price point.
And don't you think that the R&D departments of the oil companies investigate these snake oils to see if their claims have any merit? If they found that they did then they'd either buy the company or the patent to gain a competitive advantage.
_________________
93 LT (x2)
94 RS
86-97 K75F(K75/100/1100 Frankenbrick)
86 K75C w/paralever, hi perf cams,TURBO!
91 & 92 K75Ss
91 K1
86 custom K100
14 WR250R
IBA #17739 (SS1K, BBG, 50CC)
Buy parts HERE |
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SugarHillCTD
Site Admin
Joined: 10 Oct 2007
Posts: 4238
Location: Now in Eastern Pennsylvania
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| Posted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 9:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Flying Duck wrote: | | ....don't you think that the R&D departments of the oil companies investigate these snake oils to see if their claims have any merit? If they found that they did then they'd either buy the company or the patent to gain a competitive advantage. |
Sure- they would probably gobble them up and maybe the consumer would see the result- if, and only if- it was a positive for the corporation
Good points all......
John
_________________
John & Cathy
'92 K100RS4V Pearl White SOLD
'04 K1200GT
IBA Several-SS1k, BBG, 50CC NYC to S.F. |
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Flying Duck
PsyKotic Waterfowl
Joined: 27 Jan 2005
Posts: 10102
Location: Bumf***, WA
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| Posted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 9:46 pm Post subject: |
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| SugarHillCTD wrote: | | Flying Duck wrote: | | ....don't you think that the R&D departments of the oil companies investigate these snake oils to see if their claims have any merit? If they found that they did then they'd either buy the company or the patent to gain a competitive advantage. |
Sure- they would probably gobble them up and maybe the consumer would see the result- if, and only if- it was a positive for the corporation
Good points all......
John |
Yep, because it's their job to maximize shareholder wealth.
And why the "maybe the customer would see the result?" If the customer doesn't realize/perceive the extra value (which means they'll pay more for that extra value) then there's no point in going to the extra expense.
Gobble them up? They can't just seize another company. They make an offer based on the value of the other company/product/patent. The company they're making the offer to either accepts or rejects it. And their competitors can also make offers.
_________________
93 LT (x2)
94 RS
86-97 K75F(K75/100/1100 Frankenbrick)
86 K75C w/paralever, hi perf cams,TURBO!
91 & 92 K75Ss
91 K1
86 custom K100
14 WR250R
IBA #17739 (SS1K, BBG, 50CC)
Buy parts HERE |
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